Moviefone Copyright 2011, HuffingtonPost.com, Inc. Moviefone Good old fashioned elbow grease. Mindy Weiss, who counts Ellen DeGeneres and Jessica Simpson among her clients, is one of these people.

So when HuffPost Weddings got an invitation to have lunch with Weiss, an event hosted by Perfect Circle jewelry insurance, we RSVP'd with an enthusiastic yes. Though not every couple has the budget of, say, Gwen Stefani, another star who's worked with Weiss, the planner offered a lot of advice that can apply to any wedding. Here are 15 takeaways:

1. Rose-gold and yellow-gold jewelry is very in. Weiss was surprised when her daughter-in-law wanted a rose-gold wedding band, but now she's realized that it's on trend. "It's very cool, it's original, it's self-expressive," she said.

2. Creams and greens are the hot colors right now. Though she's still seeing lots of lavender, Weiss is noticing an uptick in pistachio bridesmaid dresses. She wonders if this has to do with the Pantone color of the year.

3. Engraving is back. Though letterpress isn't out entirely, engraving is popular once again. Weiss says gimmicks are fine for the save-the-date, but couples are going the classic route for the actual invitation. That said, more and more save-the-dates are being sent by email, a good way to save money.

4. "Lighting is out of control." Weiss says people are getting a little tired of chandeliers and looking for more interesting fixtures.

5. Lace is here to stay. Weiss likes either just a touch of the material or a ton of it. She's particularly excited about one over-the-top idea: "We are draping a whole tent in lace."

6. Rehearsal dinners should be fun and casual. Why should guests have to get dressed up two nights in a row? Weiss suggests something more low-key for the rehearsal dinner and mentioned Mexican fiesta and Italian family style as possibilities. "I theme everything," she said.

7. "The candy shop's going away." As pretty as these displays are, Weiss isn't doing them as much anymore. Instead, couples are opting for other old-fashioned desserts like cookies or Rice Krispies treats. "No one's doing fancy desserts."

8. Couples are more willing to skip videography and cake cutting. Weiss disagrees with both of these decisions. She's had brides and grooms tell her they don't even eat cake. Her response? "Just cut the cake."

9. Brides are carrying purses. Well, not necessarily carrying them. Weiss is the one who often ends up holding the handbag. Still, inspired by the looks on the red carpet, more women are deciding they need this accessory.

10. Many women are still buying two dresses. Weiss isn't opposed to different outfits for the ceremony and the reception, but she does think brides are changing too soon. She says they should stay in their gowns for at least the first dance and the cake cutting. She adds that grooms are also changing from tuxes into nice suits.

11. Tables should have lots of low flowers. Such arrangements help create a sense of intimacy, so guests don't have to talk around the centerpieces.

12. An empty chair is a good way to honor the deceased. Weiss thinks this tribute, combined with a mention from the officiant, is better than writing "the late ..." before the person's name on the invitation.

13. Carolina Herrera is making a comeback. Weiss loved the designer's collection at the recent New York Bridal Market.

14. Artsy photographers are getting into the wedding business. Their style is "great for about 10 pictures," Weiss said. "[But] you still need Grandma ... it's not just a picture of the shoes." She says these photographers need to learn the important shots to take as they expand into this area.

15. DJs are becoming increasingly cool. If you don't have one at the reception, you may want to hire one for later in the evening. Because as Weiss says, "Everyone has an after-party."

Keep in touch! Check out HuffPost Weddings on Facebook, Twitter and Pinterest.]]> Wed, 1 May 2013 12:21:43 EDT 3188258 birthday pictures to Instagram, I ended up looking through older images and came across a photo of the most “Are you even serious, Fortune Cookie Company?” fortune I have ever received.

I shared this on my own social networks when I got it back in November, but I now think it needs a wider audience.



When a friend saw the picture, she had this completely appropriate response: "How stale was your cookie?? Must have been OLD!"

The sad part is that it wasn't.]]> Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:45:00 EDT 3163301 Mindy Kaling got her first book deal, and when I emailed a friend that I had competition, she suggested that maybe the "Office" writer and I could team up. "You could totally have the best girlie book tour ever, complete with shopping breaks and cocktails!"

Fast-forward to today. Kaling's "Is Everyone Hanging Out Without Me? (And Other Concerns)" landed on the New York Times bestseller list, and she has another one in the works. Meanwhile, I published a few pieces that got some attention, but not nearly enough to secure a book deal. I solicited feedback from one agent and was told that the writing, while strong, didn't quite reach the level that would justify a collection. I was discouraged, and though I continued writing, I also worked a full-time job and made plans with friends and never even attempted the wake-up-at-5 a.m.-and-write-for-two-hours routine.

When I first imagined my pub date, I was trying to be realistic about the time it would take to pull everything together. But I was also aware of something else: In releasing my book in 2012, I would be accomplishing a major life goal before my 30th birthday, that unspoken deadline so many women have for our personal and professional accomplishments. Somehow we've gotten the idea that if we haven't achieved certain objectives by 30, we must have failed. Might as well stop trying, right?

Today is my 30th birthday, and, yes, I would like to have done more before this point, but I want to approach this occasion without regret or disappointment. I feel more stable, more confident, more self-aware than ever before, and I've done a lot in my life that I'm proud of. As much as I enjoyed comparing myself to the famous "30 Things Every Woman Must Have and Know Before 30" list, reaching this age has made me realize we need a follow-up, a reminder that it's okay if we still have goals to fulfill. Wouldn't it be depressing if we didn't?

The following is not a bucket list, a catalog of wild adventures I'm determined to have before I die. Rather, it's an attempt to focus on how much more I have to look forward to and to acknowledge that I still have plenty of time to check items off my list.

30 Things I Hope To Do After 30


1. Write a book. I don't know if it will be the collection of essays I envisioned or a different type of book entirely. What I do know is that Helen Gurley Brown published "Sex and the Single Girl" at 40.

2. Travel to Australia and New Zealand. This one is less about the destination than the distance. You don't hop on a flight to Sydney, sightsee for three days and return. In my 20s, though, not only did weddings claim my vacation days, I was also concerned about being away from the office, certain I needed to prove myself before I could take time off. Now I know that vacation is essential to avoid burnout and actually good for productivity.

3. Wear a leather dress. It's stylish and sexy with a "Do you dare?" quality. It's also not reserved for 20-somethings and Jennifer Aniston.

4. Do a headstand. I tend to view yoga the way my mom views Tylenol -- as a cure-all for any problem or ailment. And yet I've attended only occasional classes over the years, always positioning myself in the back of the room and never truly committing to a routine. Katie Couric was 55 when she shared this photo, so there's still hope for me.

5. Throw a party for my parents. They've been toasting me for years. Someday soon I want to have enough money to throw them the celebration they deserve.

6. Get married. This one is happening in January, and I am continually amazed that I met someone who cares about me and understands me like my fiancé does. (Hat tip, JDate.) But had I met my fiancé in my early 20s, I'm not sure I would have recognized our compatibility or felt as certain as I do about my decision. I had to understand myself better and define my own priorities in order to know what I was looking for in someone else.

7. Learn to cook. I can make omelets. Not omelets I would serve to another human being, mind you, but they do contain eggs and cheese and have a fold down the middle. Now that I'm living with someone, I want to expand my repertoire. I don't aspire to be Julia Child, but I can take a lesson from her: "I was 32 when I started cooking. Up until then, I just ate."

8. Read Dorothy Parker and Flannery O'Connor. I read "The Bell Jar" for the first time last year. [Pauses for gasps.] It was one of those books I knew I should have read before, and I would grow silent when my peers discussed it. Now that I've crossed Plath off my list, I'm ready to tackle the other iconic female writers I somehow missed.

9. Get invited to a Big Event. The White House Correspondents' dinner or the TIME 100 gala seem most likely, given that they bring together people from multiple industries, including my own, but just putting it out there that I would be absolutely fine with the Oscars.

10. Learn to put on makeup properly. Oh, sure, I do something to my eyes in the morning and there's a loose powder that gets all over the bathroom sink, but really, I have no idea what I'm doing. I look at myself in the mirror later in the day, and all my work seems to have disappeared. I need to learn some actual techniques.

11. Drink more water. Why is it so hard to drink the recommended eight glasses a day? In 30 years I've never managed to get into this habit. I'm trying to be more aware of this in order to reap the wide variety of benefits, from better skin to more energy. Water, after all, is the yoga of beverages.

12. Become more financially independent. This is hard to admit, but here goes: I'm not there yet. I pay my rent and my bills, but look in my closet and you'll see abundant evidence of the help I still get from my family. While I wouldn't exactly go naked without their support, the specific items in my wardrobe would be different. (Well, not this one.) My parents and grandparents say they would take me shopping regardless of my salary, insisting they get joy out of the experience. But it still bothers me that I am not at a point where I could use my own credit card to buy the things I love.

13. Have and raise children. Throughout my 20s, I struggled with the idea of having kids, often telling other people (and myself) that I didn't want them. I came up with "what if" after "what if" about motherhood, scenarios that made me wonder why I would disrupt a life I was happy with to introduce something so unknown. Then I realized something important about myself: I shy away from things that scare me, and there's little that scares me more than not being able to control or predict the outcome of a situation. I'm not sure if my biological clock has simply started to tick ever-so-softly, or if being in the right relationship has influenced my thinking, but lately I've been feeling small pangs when I see pictures of friends' kids or when I spy tiny dresses in the window of Baby Gap. I still have lots of anxiety about the whole thing, but I've decided not to let my fear be a roadblock to this experience. I'm still asking "what if," but I'm learning to reframe the question. What if the children are adorable? What if my husband and I grow even closer? What if I have the same wonderful relationship with my kids that I have with my own parents? What if I were to miss all that because I was too scared?

14. Take a cross-country road trip. Though road trips are usually associated with college, there's really no age limit. My fiancé has driven across the country twice and has been talking about doing it a third time. Whenever that happens, I plan to join him. I'd like to see the places I've only flown over in the past.

15. Take notes. Even the moments and details we swear we'll never forget often fade in our memories. By typing things up as they happen, I'll ensure that I have a record later on, both for myself and for my kids and grandkids.

16. Give advice to my younger cousins. My uncle got married at 43, so I have first cousins who are 2 and 6. Right now, they're kids, not really in a position to need much guidance, but as these little girls get older, I hope they will feel comfortable coming to me to discuss friends, boys, school, jobs and more. It's strange to realize that you have actual life experience, that you've already been through many of the things your younger friends and family members are going through, but it's also really nice because you know it's going to be okay. I hope I'm able to convey this to my cousins.

17. Purchase nicer furniture. The items in my apartment aren't junk, but I knew when I bought them that I wouldn't have them forever. One day, I hope to choose furniture that's not just "fine for now," pieces that indicate a sense of permanence and stability.

18. Run a half-marathon in a foreign country. While I will continue to do laps in Central Park, it would be thrilling to take in, say, London or Paris in this way. And I won't pretend I'm not thinking of victory scones and chocolate croissants.

19. Learn to edit video. If my 75-year-old great-aunt can join Facebook and get an email account to keep in touch with her grandkids, I don't think it's too late for me to learn to make a mash-up or cut a clip. Video is the future. Time to step it up.

20. Ask my older relatives more questions. I'm fortunate that three of my grandparents are still alive, active and extremely interested in my life. Going forward, I plan to take an even greater interest in theirs.

21. Take a trip with my sister. She lives in Los Angeles and I'm in New York, and though our family is close as a whole, she and I get most of our updates about each other from our parents. I'd like to think that we might communicate more directly as we get older (and not just through Facebook and Instagram). Even a short vacation could be a good first step.

22. Learn how to wrap a present. TGFGB. That would be Thank God For Gift Bags. I've relied on them a lot over the years, trying to avoid the messy, uneven corners that inevitably occur when I try to use wrapping paper. I have no desire to be the next Martha Stewart -- that shell sconce is just not going to happen -- but I will note that she didn't release her first book, "Entertaining," until she was 41.

23. Make new friends. When I was dating and would go out with someone who was nice but not quite right for me, my mom would say, "Maybe you can be friends," to which I would respond, "I don't need more friends." I didn't get to see the friends I had nearly enough. Now I realize that it's silly to cut off the possibility of connecting with someone new just because I already have a large group of friends. I suspect there are many women out there with whom I have more in common than I do with some of my best friends from growing up. This is not to say these long-term friendships aren't important -- the history matters. But as I enter new phases of my life, I also want to get to know more people who can relate to who I am now. In her New Yorker piece after Nora Ephron's death, Lena Dunham wrote: "The opportunity to be friends with Nora in the last year of her life informs the entirety of mine." Can you imagine if Lena had decided she was set with the friends she had?

24. Establish a skin-care regimen. My grandmother and I were at Bloomingdale's last year when a saleswoman referred to her as my mother. I wasn't surprised: She's been telling me since I was little how important it is to take care of your skin, advice she got from her mother and follows dutifully. I, on the other hand, don't really go beyond washing and moisturizing, despite the fact that I should apparently already have a system in place. Oops.

25. Bake a cake. Not from a mix. My cousin has been working her way through the Momofuku Milk Bar cookbook, and I am in awe of her patience. If I could follow even one of these recipes and have the result look and taste as it should, I would be pretty damn impressed with myself. Especially if it was for one of the awesome-looking layer cakes.

26. Own a home. When we can afford it, a house (or apartment) will be a long-term investment. Plus, I don't want to play the "Will my landlord raise my rent?" guessing game forever.

27. Visit the South of France, the Greek isles and the Amalfi Coast. Do I really need to explain? Have you not seen photos?

28. Take classes just for fun. Fran Lebowitz's quote that "in real life ... there is no such thing as algebra" is true for so many of us. Now is the time to focus on chocolate and cheese, film and foreign languages.

29. Work for myself. I enjoy the social aspect of the office and worry I would feel out of the loop without daily interactions with colleagues. But every once in a while, I think about what it would be like if I had even more control of my schedule and if I could work on a product of my own creation. I want to find out what it's like to be my own boss.

30. Finally feel like a grown-up. In "Wendy and the Lost Boys," author Julie Salamon describes playwright Wendy Wasserstein at 26 as being "in the odd position of being a grown-up in some ways but still a child, dependent on [her father] Morris for money, unattached, uncertain about her career." I dog-eared that page. Throughout my 20s, I bounced back and forth between feeling like Mommy and Daddy's Not-So-Little Girl and an adult who was out there in the world on her own. Though I never moved back home, I never felt entirely independent either -- a prime example of what Jeffrey Arnett calls "emerging adulthood." Despite knowing that this was not unique, I still wondered if that in-between feeling would ever go away.

It did.

What's on your post-30 to-do list? What's the best thing you've done after 30? Tell us in the comments or tweet @HuffPostWomen with the hashtag #post30life.]]> Thu, 25 Apr 2013 08:24:01 EDT 3130951 Coachella begins this weekend, and though we at HuffPost Women are not attending, we have no doubt that we will know what's going on. Why? Because Twitter exists.

We expect to see tweets from famous people and non-famous people alike coming out of Indio, Calif. But it's not just those who are actually there who have something to say. This week a number of women started tweeting about -- and, well, mocking* -- the music and arts festival. Jess Dweck commented on the conditions: "'Do you love music but hate comfort and indoor plumbing?' -ad for Coachella." Michelle Wolf chimed in with the following: "I thought I was at Coachella but turns out I just went to an Urban Outfitters after not showering for 3 days." And Jenny Mollen shared this remark: "It's that time of year again where a bunch of unsuspecting adults are about to discover they're in a relationship with a Coachella attendee."

For more amazing tweets from women, click through the gallery below. Then visit our Funniest Tweets From Women page for our past collections.

*Apologies to Coachella attendees. Have a great time. We're not judging -- we're just reporting the tweets.]]> Sat, 13 Apr 2013 07:47:20 EDT 3070201 Little Miss Popular book or something, but I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I've remained close with the friends I grew up with in Houston, and I've met new people through college in Chicago and post-college life in New York. And it's all added up to quite a large group.

What this means is that I've put many of my vacation days toward bridal showers and bachelorette parties and rehearsal dinners and weddings. I've flown to Minneapolis, Dallas and Cincinnati, taken the train to Boston and rode in the passenger seat to Wilmington, Del. I've had to decline a few invitations when the trip just wasn't feasible, but for the most part, I've tried to be there for my friends' celebrations. My wedding count is now at 21, and I have several more already on my calendar, including my own.

Here's what I have learned:

1. The wedding is about the couple, but it's not only about the couple. Maybe you could make the case that when people elope or have a totally private ceremony, it really is just about the two of them. But assuming there are others in attendance, the wedding is a big deal for family and friends who are like family too. Remember that a marriage joins two lives, not just two people.

2. Wedding websites are not just vanity projects. Yes, you have to put pictures of yourself and your future spouse online, often accompanied by your charming "how we met" and proposal stories, but it's not just about broadcasting your happiness to the world. Having all the relevant information (registry, hotel and transportation, area attractions) in the same place is extremely helpful for guests. I'm now disappointed when a couple doesn't create one of these sites.

3. You can pull together a beautiful wedding pretty quickly if you want to. One of my friends got engaged in November and tied the knot in March. There was no need for a prolonged engagement. She and her now-husband were ready to get married, so they got married. And their wedding was just as gorgeous and fun as weddings I've been to that took double the time to plan.

4. Bridesmaids probably won't wear their dresses again, even if the bride assures them that they'll be able to. The chances of the dress being something they would have picked out on their own are pretty slim, but that's OK. The bridesmaids agreed to be in the wedding party because of their relationship with the bride, so for the most part, they'll wear whatever she asks them to. It's just part of the deal.

5. Plus-ones should be given more liberally as you get older. It's understandable that you don't want your single friends scrambling to find someone, only to bring a random date you've never met. But guests in relatively new relationships shouldn't be subject to the same strict "How long have you been together?" test that they might have been just after college. First of all, you probably have fewer people in this situation now than you would have in the past, as many of your friends have already paired off. But beyond that, a six-month relationship at 29 is typically much more serious than a six-month relationship at 22. The rules should change accordingly.

6. Just because an item is on the registry doesn't mean it's a great gift. Sure, the couple might use a laundry hamper or flatware polish, but is that really what you want to give a close friend on this special occasion? Do you really want to be the one to say congratulations with a corn husker? Leave that to someone who doesn't know them as well or let the newlyweds buy it with the credit they get from returns. Choose a silver picture frame or porcelain vase instead.

7. It's not selfish or rude to plan a wedding over a holiday weekend. I realize this one is controversial, as a lot of people like to arrange their own trips over Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. But my feeling has always been that if you're close enough to be invited to a person's wedding (and aren't going just out of obligation), this shouldn't be such a burden. If the wedding involves any travel at all, you're probably going to have to take off a Monday or a Friday to be there anyway, so it's really just a matter of using that vacation day for personal reasons instead and devoting your holiday to the wedding.

8. Black tie doesn't necessarily mean ball gown. This is a wedding, not the Academy Awards. So while it's smart to ask around to see if the hosts have any expectations or preferences, I've definitely worn short dresses to very formal weddings and haven't been out of place.

9. Out-of-towners always appreciate a good hospitality bag. It's such a treat to arrive at the hotel and have the person at the front desk present you with a gift. Because, in addition to the weekend schedule (which is essential), you know you're about to get chocolate chip cookies. Or M&M's. Or caramel corn. Or pretzels. Or some regional treat. Or all of the above. The best bags, I've found, have a combination of sweet and salty and at least one bottle of water. The water comes in especially handy when you get back from the reception and don't want to open the $8 Evian.

10. You will never regret having tissues in your purse. It doesn't matter if the bride and groom are my best friends or if they're my fiance's friends and I've met them only once. I will most likely tear up. Recently, at a wedding in Boston, I told my fiance I just had the sniffles. I was lying.

11. Your friend's spouse-to-be doesn't have to be someone you would want to marry. Perhaps you don't agree with the groom's political beliefs or don't find his jokes that funny or aren't attracted to him. Well, that's fine, because you're not marrying him. As long as he loves your friend and they have a strong connection, just be happy for them.

12. Little kids in formal attire are incredibly adorable. They may get nervous walking down the aisle. They may get fussy or talkative during the ceremony. And they may get tired (or wired) by the end of the night. But, on the other hand, toddler tuxes!

13. There's really no need for a signature drink. Your guests will be happy with wine, champagne, vodka or some other basic beverage and likely prefer these drinks to a fruity concoction with a whimsical name. Focus more on making the food stand out. I still have fond memories of the lobster-taco appetizers at one wedding and the macaroni and cheese bar at another.

14. Photo slideshows are risky. Proceed with caution. It's sweet to see your friends as babies and with their families and with each other and with each other's families, but these presentations can get overly long. Also, there's the potential for a projector malfunction. This isn't to say don't put them together. Just keep your audience in mind if you do.

15. The bouquet toss is kind of an uncomfortable tradition. Even when I was single, I chose that time to go to the bathroom, especially as the group of eligible women started to dwindle. Or I would stand off to the side in the back of the group and let my less shy friends go after the flowers. There are few things in life that aren't made better with Beyonce, but even "Single Ladies" doesn't improve this particular situation. In fact, it always signaled to me that it was time to hide.

16. It's really nice to hear the bride and groom express how they feel about each other. Not everyone recites personal vows at the ceremony. But in addition to toasts from the best man and maid of honor and friends and family, I want a few words from the couple. I want to hear the groom say how stunning his bride looks and how sweet she is with his grandpa. I want to hear the bride talk about the groom's good heart and how he calms her down when she's feeling anxious. And cliches completely get a pass: No one is going to judge the newlyweds for saying they feel like the "luckiest people in the world."

17. The grown-ups like to party just as much as the kids. Many of the weddings I've attended have been for close family friends, so my parents and their friends have been invited as well. I've found that it's often my dad's friends who are rounding up a group for tequila shots. Plus, when "Firework" comes on, my first thought is not to find friends my age, but to jump up and down with one of my dad's best friends who happens to be a big Katy Perry fan.

18. A variety of appetizers is more important than a variety of desserts. No one is going to be all "Ugh, macarons" if you decide to end the evening on an extra-sweet note, but as long as you have a really awesome cake, you're good. While everyone is mingling during the cocktail hour and hungry for the main course, however, they're going to be excited to have options.

19. "Don't Stop Believin'" by Journey is the magical song that gets people on the dance floor. If you're inclined to avoid it because you worry that everyone plays it, consider that maybe there's a reason. The band played this at the end of a friend's wedding in 2008, and I still associate the song with that night. This might be because I had friends who hopped up on stage -- emboldened by more than just the lyrics -- but I think the familiarity of the song also encourages guests to gather and sing to one another.

20. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing a little sleep to extend the festivities after the reception. Honestly, I usually just want to crash after the send-off, and I'm not the type to seek out a wild after-party. But I'm thinking of the night I sat in the lobby of a Chicago hotel eating pizza with one of my best friends and two of her friends I didn't know quite as well. We'd all spent hours on the dance floor, but the impromptu get-together that followed made the weekend even better.

21. It's wonderful to have a good wedding, but it's more important to have a good marriage. Despite the effort that goes into making everything perfect, the wedding is still just one night. Ultimately, it's not about the food or the flowers or the music or the dress. It's about the relationship between the two people you've come together to celebrate.

This story appears in Issue 44 of our weekly iPad magazine, Huffington, in the iTunes App store, available Friday, April 12.

]]> Tue, 2 Apr 2013 01:54:20 EDT 3044395 Little Miss Popular book or something, but I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I've remained close with the friends I grew up with in Houston, and I've met new people through college in Chicago and post-college life in New York. And it's all added up to quite a large group.

What this means is that I've put many of my vacation days toward bridal showers and bachelorette parties and rehearsal dinners and weddings. I've flown to Minneapolis, Dallas and Cincinnati, taken the train to Boston and rode in the passenger seat to Wilmington, Del. I've had to decline a few invitations when the trip just wasn't feasible, but for the most part, I've tried to be there for my friends' celebrations. My wedding count is now at 21, and I have several more already on my calendar, including my own.

Here's what I have learned:

1. The wedding is about the couple, but it's not only about the couple. Maybe you could make the case that when people elope or have a totally private ceremony, it really is just about the two of them. But assuming there are others in attendance, the wedding is a big deal for family and friends who are like family too. Remember that a marriage joins two lives, not just two people.

2. Wedding websites are not just vanity projects. Yes, you have to put pictures of yourself and your future spouse online, often accompanied by your charming "how we met" and proposal stories, but it's not just about broadcasting your happiness to the world. Having all the relevant information (registry, hotel and transportation, area attractions) in the same place is extremely helpful for guests. I'm now disappointed when a couple doesn't create one of these sites.

3. You can pull together a beautiful wedding pretty quickly if you want to. One of my friends got engaged in November and tied the knot in March. There was no need for a prolonged engagement. She and her now-husband were ready to get married, so they got married. And their wedding was just as gorgeous and fun as weddings I've been to that took double the time to plan.

4. Bridesmaids probably won't wear their dresses again, even if the bride assures them that they'll be able to. The chances of the dress being something they would have picked out on their own are pretty slim, but that's OK. The bridesmaids agreed to be in the wedding party because of their relationship with the bride, so for the most part, they'll wear whatever she asks them to. It's just part of the deal.

5. Plus-ones should be given more liberally as you get older. It's understandable that you don't want your single friends scrambling to find someone, only to bring a random date you've never met. But guests in relatively new relationships shouldn't be subject to the same strict "How long have you been together?" test that they might have been just after college. First of all, you probably have fewer people in this situation now than you would have in the past, as many of your friends have already paired off. But beyond that, a six-month relationship at 29 is typically much more serious than a six-month relationship at 22. The rules should change accordingly.

6. Just because an item is on the registry doesn't mean it's a great gift. Sure, the couple might use a laundry hamper or flatware polish, but is that really what you want to give a close friend on this special occasion? Do you really want to be the one to say congratulations with a corn husker? Leave that to someone who doesn't know them as well or let the newlyweds buy it with the credit they get from returns. Choose a silver picture frame or porcelain vase instead.

7. It's not selfish or rude to plan a wedding over a holiday weekend. I realize this one is controversial, as a lot of people like to arrange their own trips over Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. But my feeling has always been that if you're close enough to be invited to a person's wedding (and aren't going just out of obligation), this shouldn't be such a burden. If the wedding involves any travel at all, you're probably going to have to take off a Monday or a Friday to be there anyway, so it's really just a matter of using that vacation day for personal reasons instead and devoting your holiday to the wedding.

8. Black tie doesn't necessarily mean ball gown. This is a wedding, not the Academy Awards. So while it's smart to ask around to see if the hosts have any expectations or preferences, I've definitely worn short dresses to very formal weddings and haven't been out of place.

9. Out-of-towners always appreciate a good hospitality bag. It's such a treat to arrive at the hotel and have the person at the front desk present you with a gift. Because, in addition to the weekend schedule (which is essential), you know you're about to get chocolate chip cookies. Or M&M's. Or caramel corn. Or pretzels. Or some regional treat. Or all of the above. The best bags, I've found, have a combination of sweet and salty and at least one bottle of water. The water comes in especially handy when you get back from the reception and don't want to open the $8 Evian.

10. You will never regret having tissues in your purse. It doesn't matter if the bride and groom are my best friends or if they're my fiance's friends and I've met them only once. I will most likely tear up. Recently, at a wedding in Boston, I told my fiance I just had the sniffles. I was lying.

11. Your friend's spouse-to-be doesn't have to be someone you would want to marry. Perhaps you don't agree with the groom's political beliefs or don't find his jokes that funny or aren't attracted to him. Well, that's fine, because you're not marrying him. As long as he loves your friend and they have a strong connection, just be happy for them.

12. Little kids in formal attire are incredibly adorable. They may get nervous walking down the aisle. They may get fussy or talkative during the ceremony. And they may get tired (or wired) by the end of the night. But, on the other hand, toddler tuxes!

13. There's really no need for a signature drink. Your guests will be happy with wine, champagne, vodka or some other basic beverage and likely prefer these drinks to a fruity concoction with a whimsical name. Focus more on making the food stand out. I still have fond memories of the lobster-taco appetizers at one wedding and the macaroni and cheese bar at another.

14. Photo slideshows are risky. Proceed with caution. It's sweet to see your friends as babies and with their families and with each other and with each other's families, but these presentations can get overly long. Also, there's the potential for a projector malfunction. This isn't to say don't put them together. Just keep your audience in mind if you do.

15. The bouquet toss is kind of an uncomfortable tradition. Even when I was single, I chose that time to go to the bathroom, especially as the group of eligible women started to dwindle. Or I would stand off to the side in the back of the group and let my less shy friends go after the flowers. There are few things in life that aren't made better with Beyonce, but even "Single Ladies" doesn't improve this particular situation. In fact, it always signaled to me that it was time to hide.

16. It's really nice to hear the bride and groom express how they feel about each other. Not everyone recites personal vows at the ceremony. But in addition to toasts from the best man and maid of honor and friends and family, I want a few words from the couple. I want to hear the groom say how stunning his bride looks and how sweet she is with his grandpa. I want to hear the bride talk about the groom's good heart and how he calms her down when she's feeling anxious. And cliches completely get a pass: No one is going to judge the newlyweds for saying they feel like the "luckiest people in the world."

17. The grown-ups like to party just as much as the kids. Many of the weddings I've attended have been for close family friends, so my parents and their friends have been invited as well. I've found that it's often my dad's friends who are rounding up a group for tequila shots. Plus, when "Firework" comes on, my first thought is not to find friends my age, but to jump up and down with one of my dad's best friends who happens to be a big Katy Perry fan.

18. A variety of appetizers is more important than a variety of desserts. No one is going to be all "Ugh, macarons" if you decide to end the evening on an extra-sweet note, but as long as you have a really awesome cake, you're good. While everyone is mingling during the cocktail hour and hungry for the main course, however, they're going to be excited to have options.

19. "Don't Stop Believin'" by Journey is the magical song that gets people on the dance floor. If you're inclined to avoid it because you worry that everyone plays it, consider that maybe there's a reason. The band played this at the end of a friend's wedding in 2008, and I still associate the song with that night. This might be because I had friends who hopped up on stage -- emboldened by more than just the lyrics -- but I think the familiarity of the song also encourages guests to gather and sing to one another.

20. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing a little sleep to extend the festivities after the reception. Honestly, I usually just want to crash after the send-off, and I'm not the type to seek out a wild after-party. But I'm thinking of the night I sat in the lobby of a Chicago hotel eating pizza with one of my best friends and two of her friends I didn't know quite as well. We'd all spent hours on the dance floor, but the impromptu get-together that followed made the weekend even better.

21. It's wonderful to have a good wedding, but it's more important to have a good marriage. Despite the effort that goes into making everything perfect, the wedding is still just one night. Ultimately, it's not about the food or the flowers or the music or the dress. It's about the relationship between the two people you've come together to celebrate.

This story appears in Issue 44 of our weekly iPad magazine, Huffington, in the iTunes App store, available Friday, April 12.

]]> Tue, 2 Apr 2013 01:54:20 EDT 2988589 Less Stress, More Living page, please do.) That's why we loved Shama Hussain's very funny but also very true tweet this week: "People who email me for work on Sunday and write 'Happy Sunday' clearly do not understand what the phrase means."

For more great tweets from women, click through the gallery below. Then visit our Funniest Tweets From Women page for our past collections.]]> Fri, 29 Mar 2013 07:49:17 EDT 2978042 Emma: At the end of last episode, we saw all of the girls sort of hit rock bottom -- this episode, we got at least a bit of resolution.
Lori F.: So let's start with ... Marnie?

FOR LOVE OR MONEY?
Emma: Marnie is having better sex than she ever has on this show.
Lori L.: But it's good because Charlie has been "practicing."
Lori F.: Right, and he's more confident.
Margaret: It's still not great for her though because she can't relax.
Emma: Marnie is never NOT neurotic.
Lori L.: Charlie seems so much sexier than he used to because of his newfound confidence.
Margaret: Agree. I think Marnie was liking sex with him more mostly because the power dynamic has changed. She used to hate how passive and accommodating he was in bed.
Emma: Oh absolutely! I think that she enjoys not having to control everything all the time.
Lori L.: Right. Now he's taking the lead. But what about the brunch scene?



Emma: It seemed sort of presumptuous to me that she would assume they were seriously dating without talking to him about it.
Lori L.: Am I the only person who thinks that this IS about his money? And not about true love?
Lori F.: No, you are not the only one. Money and prestige.
Lori L.: Who says, "We're settled down. We're old fogies now."
Lori F.: I think he has real feelings toward her, and she doesn't toward him.
Lori L.: Agree.
Lori F.: He's just fitting the image of who she should be with now. Also, the fact that she immediately has to clarify that it's NOT about money says something.
Emma: I think she does love him, but she wants to be with him more out of comfort than because of that love. Her life feels so out of control, and he is something that she can feel good about.
Margaret: I agree -- I think she loves him, or thinks she does, but her main yearning is for the stability he offers, which is and isn't about money.
Lori L.: It's kind of amazing that he still carries a torch for her. What is that about?
Margaret: I think we're supposed to believe that he's just always loved her and always will, but I really thought he was over her during the last few episodes.
Emma: I also think that when someone says everything you've wanted to hear for a year, it's hard to say no.
Margaret: I agree with that, Emma, but I still didn't find it believable. I thought Charlie was going to say, "You're right. You are crazy. I can't deal with this anymore."
Lori F.: Also, again, I am stunned by her lack of social awareness. Yelling across the restaurant at him? She just can't control herself. "So, you really don't want to date me?"
Emma: Yeah, that was nuts.
Lori L.: And yet he followed her out!
Margaret: I didn't believe he'd do that either.
Lori L.: I want to understand what he loves about her, and I just don't.
Emma: I think it's more about comfort than anything.
Lori F.: When they were professing their love to each other, I was thinking of how different I felt when Ray and Shosh did that (despite the outcome of that).
Emma: Yeah, it felt much less genuine.
Lori F.: I felt no emotion because it felt so dumb that they would be together.
Emma: They shouldn't be. Their relationship ended for a reason.
Margaret: There was no reason for it to resume.
Lori L.: None.
Emma: Marnie needs time to figure herself out -- outside of a boyfriend.
Lori F.: Also! "I want to have your little brown babies." WHAT?
Lori L.: What was THAT? I don't even get it.
Emma: Yeah... that speech sort of reminded me of the speeches Hannah's given... but so much less endearing. It was just weird. "I want to watch you die."
Lori F.: Me too, Emma. It was like when Hannah made a speech to Adam, but Hannah's was good and made sense.
Margaret: I felt like Marnie heard those lines in a rom-com and is repeating them.
Emma: Exactly!
Lori L.: His lines were very rom-comish too: "I love you.
Maybe I'm an idiot for it, but I always have. Everything good that I try and do, I do it because of you. And I try and get away but I just keep coming back. That's because I love you." Blech.
Margaret: Both of them sounded like they were following a script.
Lori F.: And then later we see them walking around on a fancy date, just like she would want.
Lori L.: All dressed up and smiling? All wrapped up in a bow?
Margaret: They've become a stock photo.
Emma: "Pretty girl and rich boyfriend." Ugh.
Lori L.: It's like you can see them 10, 20 years in the future going to charity balls.
Margaret: The whole scene I was waiting for Marnie to wake up from a dream. It was like a wish-fulfillment fantasy.
Emma: I'm hoping that all of this gets twisted on its head next season.
Lori L.: Oh, it will.
Margaret: Agree. So then Marnie goes to check on Hannah, finally. It annoyed me that only after she was back together with Charlie did she go see if her best friend is alive.
Emma: Right, it felt like she just wanted to tell Hannah that they were back together.
Lori L.: That's why she went, I'm sure -- under the guise of seeing how Hannah was doing.
Emma: It was really sad to me that they hadn't seen each other in so long. That friendship is so strained right now.
Lori L.: As well as Hannah and Jessa's of course.
Lori F.: I was feeling bad for Marnie earlier in the season, a little, but now she's back to being annoying.
Lori L.: I feel nothing for her. Should we move on?

"YOU HATE EVERYTHING!"
Margaret: So Shosh STILL didn't confess
Emma: Can we talk about that sex scene first? We hadn't seen a sex scene between Shosh and Ray since he took her virginity, and this was so awful. She was wearing a sweatshirt.
Lori L.: So realistic though.
Margaret: I think we've seen worse. And sex is sometimes had in a sweatshirt. Just saying.
Emma: I'm not arguing that, but I thought it was a funny, Shosh-like touch. And made it just a bit less sexy.
Lori L.: "Can you just get out of me?" I don't know any woman who hasn't thought or said that at some point in her 20s....
Margaret: I don't think many actually say it. I liked that Shosh did.
Lori L.: Me too.
Emma: Same. She wasn't into it and she expressed that.
Lori L.: I loved how she just came out and said, "You have no ambition and it's wearing on me." People are never that honest but should be.
Emma: I agree.



Margaret: Yet she didn't confess, so she is not entirely honest (though still more honest than everyone else on the show).
Emma: She didn't, but I'm still not sure what it would have accomplished.
Margaret: That's what I'm debating.
Emma: I don't think she broke up with him BECAUSE she made out with a doorman. She would have ended the relationship anyway.
Margaret: I agree.
Lori F.: Here's the thing with their breakup: I thought her reasons for why they shouldn't be together were absolutely right. But I felt like it made him 100 percent the bad guy, and she isn't blameless.
Emma: I agree that she's not blameless.
Lori F.: I thought she was really insightful in her explanation. It was just incomplete.
Margaret: As came out in her "you hate everything" speech, the real problem is not even his lack of ambition. It's his entire outlook. "I can't be surrounded by your negativity while I'm trying to grow into a fully-formed human"
Lori L.: That was a fantastic speech. She knows who she is and who she is NOT -- a "Dark Soul."



Emma: "I can't be the only thing you like."
Margaret: So true.
Lori F.: That was a great line.
Lori L.: She's too young for this "darkness."
Emma: Also I appreciated the "There's nobody else especially not an adult male blonde. You know me better than that," line.
Margaret: "So maybe you just have to go change and then we can be in love at another time."
Lori F.: Except then later we see her with a male blonde.
Lori F. Also: "Sometimes I love you the way that I feel sorry for a monkey."
Lori L.: The whole monologue was amazing.
Lori L.: Wait -- we need to discuss COLIN QUINN!
Lori F.: So now we know one more detail about Ray: He was going for a Ph.D. in Latin Studies at some point...
Lori L.: Perfect.
Emma: Loved that they dropped in that little detail.
Margaret: I loved the croissant purse.
Emma: Perfection!
Lori F.: I love how he thinks Ray needs to support her so she can have "purses shaped like different bread products."
Lori F.: Also, it felt right that even as Ray was asking Colin Quinn for help, he was telling him he didn't want to be like him.



Margaret: I felt the same way. Which proves that Ray does have some ambition, it's just not the amount Shosh wants or expects.
Emma: But the bottom line is that the relationship needed to end. They do love each other, but it wasn't working. And I think it was good of Shosh to recognize that and end it.
Lori F.: Shosh should be doing exactly what we see her doing later. Going to bars and making out with guys and having fun. She's in college! I just felt for Ray -- because we saw him trying to make it better and he really cares about her.
Emma: I loved when Shosh yelled at Ray that he needed to go into therapy.
Margaret: He needs it.
Lori L.: Badly.
Emma: So badly.
Lori L.: It's kind of amazing that he hasn't had it.
Margaret: I agree, I was a little surprised.
Emma: Well... we know that he desperately wants to feel more masculine. And I think therapy is often seen as un-masculine.
Margaret: And he does need to learn how to enjoy SOMEthing. On that note, should we move on to Adam and Natalia?

THE CAGED BEAST
Margaret: I did not expect to see Natalia again.
Emma: I was going to say the same thing. I was surprised she stayed with him.
Lori F.: Do we think she just realized he screwed up and forgave him?
Emma: I think that Natalia forgave him. I think that she just decided to give him another chance. But she was really direct with him in bed this time. "No, I can like your cock and not be a whore. Do you understand?"
Margaret: That was amazing.
Lori L.: I loved that way she didn't just go along with his porny language and stopped him and said, Hey, this may turn you on dude, but not me.
Margaret: It's almost like she stuck around to teach him how it should be done, how you are and are not supposed to treat a woman.
Emma: I thought she was such a badass this episode. I really respect Natalia.
Lori L.: She was great. I loved the sex scenes this week. It was all about what women need/want/don't want.
Margaret: And Adam did hear what Natalia wanted and complied, but he wasn't into it.
Lori L.: When he did it HER way, he seemed uninterested.
Emma: He was trying, but he wasn't enjoying it.
Lori F.: I was surprised that she came back because he was so incredibly scary last episode. I would think she would be concerned about moving forward. I realize what happened was a big mistake, but she still doesn't know him that well.
Margaret: And we saw Adam act out physically even more this week, perhaps in part due to sexual frustration.
Emma: I didn't think that it was sexual -- I read it more as confusion. He doesn't really know how to be with his new girlfriend, it feels forced, he's been having a lot of emotional turmoil and who knows whether he's gone back to AA?
Lori L.: He doesn't have coping skills.
Margaret: But he also couldn't be as forceful as he wanted to be in bed this week, and then there he is, tearing up in his apartment like a caged beast. I thought it was a combination of sexual and other frustration.
Emma: It's like he doesn't know how to express his emotions without a physical manifestation of them.
Lori F.: That's a good point, Emma.
Lori L.: That's very male -- but not typically Brooklyn male.
Margaret: Right, Ray is the Brooklyn male in this bunch.
Emma: Before we get to the end of Adam's story, should we double back to Hannah?


"YOU'RE THE FUTURE, I GUESS"
Margaret: So she's hit rock bottom. This is so much worse than falling asleep on the subway, getting your purse stolen and having to eat cake for breakfast.
Emma: That ringing sound was incredibly painful at the beginning.
Lori F.: And the looking up health questions on some WebMD-ish site.
Lori L.: And the questions kept coming and kept getting weirder.
Margaret: "How does your body know not to stop breathing?"
Lori F.: "At what age does your body start melting down?"



Emma: Her OCD seemed to be manifesting in a twisted hypochondria.
Lori L.: So we were really seeing her descent into mental illness here.
Emma: Which made sense given the end of the last episode. Last week we saw her rupture her eardrums, and this episode she hasn't even changed her clothing since.
Margaret: Oh, I didn't notice that, but true.
Lori L.: And she cut her hair.
Emma: That was horrifying. I think she didn't know what to do after her editor called.
Margaret: The story she gave the editor did not sound believable, even though it was roughly true.
Emma: No, it sounded very "a dog ate my homework"-esque.
Lori L.: It sounded insane. I've missed plenty of deadlines, but I've never said it was because of an inner-ear issue.
Lori F.: Yet I really don't like that editor. "I have a lot at stake with you. I care about you." No, you don't.
Emma: He's kind of a prick. Also, his "You're the future, I guess," line was a good twist on "I'm the voice of a generation."
Margaret: Excellent point. And yes, a huge prick.
Lori L.: You do not care about her. You care about her writing something that makes you look good and clever for discovering her.
Emma: Right.
Lori F.: And don't forget that last week he told her he didn't finish her pages because he didn't want to. Jerk.

"YOU MAKE MY HEART STOP EVERY THREE HOURS"
Lori L.: The call with her dad was heartbreaking. It was all he could do not to wire her the money right then and there.
Lori F.: But he was less sympathetic and more skeptical than I would have thought. I was surprised at how much he resisted helping her.
Margaret: Me too. I love him so much though.
Lori L.: " "Why don't we get back on the phone and we can confab about that. She is really much better at this stuff. She's a medical hobbyist."
Lori L.: He wants to rescue her so badly but knows that he can't because a) it's not good for her and b) his wife would club him.
Emma: I love him too. But it sort of seemed like the wrong time to stand up to Hannah.
Lori F.: This is a health issue, not a desire to figure out who she is.
Margaret: It was so tragic that this had to be the moment he stood strong.
Emma: "How can I be manipulating you if I don't know I'm being manipulative?"
Lori F.: I did love that she said she used to diagnose herself using Louisa May Alcott.
Emma: Yes!
Lori L.: Hahaha.
Margaret: That was one of my favorite moments.
Lori F.: Ray isn't the only one who needs >"Little Women."
Emma: The whole conversation was both heartbreaking and hilarious.
Lori L.: I don't think he really knew how desperate and sick she was... all he could hear was that she needed to be bailed out with money.
Emma: Yeah, I think if he had been physically with her he would have been able to tell how desperate she really was.
Lori L.: Also, he said, "You make my heart stop every three hours."
Lori F.: That was such a good line. I bet it rang true for a lot of parents. I think I'm just surprised by his reaction because they've seen her go through it before. It's not like she's making this up.
Margaret: But she doesn't explicitly tell him that the OCD is acting up. She can't because she doesn't want it to be true and because she evidently hasn't been taking her medicine.
Emma: But she gets very defensive when he asks about it. "Of course I'm taking my pills! I'm not crazy!"
Lori L.: But he really shouldn't take her word for it.
Margaret: I think that's absolutely true.

THE GRANDEST RELATIONSHIP
Margaret: So, Marnie comes to visit, now that her life's going great.
Emma: And Hannah hides from her, which is incredibly sad.
Margaret: I agree. It really showed how much their relationship has deteriorated.
Emma: Hannah can't face Marnie yet. She doesn't want to face anyone. But I did find it super interesting that her book is still about friendship, even though her editor asked for it to be about sex. "A friendship between college girls is grander and more dramatic than any relationship."
Lori L.: That doesn't mean that it's not about sex too.
Emma: That's true. But I appreciated that she was focusing on friendship.
Margaret: I think it's mainly about friendship.
Emma: That's the story she wants to tell.
Lori F.: And what's on her mind right now while she's feeling alone.
Margaret: I thought that moment and the whole idea of Hannah writing this book is about telling women's stories. Not the story of the girl(s) getting the guy(s) or vice versa, but about the relationships between women.
Emma: Exactly. Why then did this episode focus so much on the guy-girl relationships? And leave the female friendships so strained?
Margaret: Good question.
Emma: I thought that contrast was VERY noticeable.
Lori L.: Because that will make for a more interesting book!
Margaret: But two of those relationships are over, and I think Marnie and Charlie will be over again before too long.
Emma: I agree. I thought that the line on Hannah's computer was beautiful and had a lot of truth in it. But it seemed to scare Marnie off.
Margaret: Or piss her off.
Lori L.: I thought it made her feel warm and good. It was poignant.
Emma: You think it made her feel good? I thought it made her sad and want to leave.
Lori F.: I thought it made her sad about the state of their relationship.
Margaret: I thought it maybe made her feel guilty
Emma: Maybe all of the above.



Lori F.: Wait, question: Marnie says she hasn't heard from Hannah in days. How could it really be days? Have they talked and Hannah kept quiet about the OCD? I can't imagine Hannah has called anyone.
Emma: They've probably texted.
Margaret: I sort of thought they were on a break, exhausted from the tension and distance between them
Lori F.: Me too.
Margaret: I figured Marnie called it days when it had been weeks.
Emma: They could have had some contact, but it probably wasn't meaningful or in person.

CUTTING IT OFF
Lori F.: Perhaps. So ... Laird?
Lori L.: I love Laird.
Margaret: I too love Laird, but I would NOT let him cut my hair.
Emma: SAME.
Lori F.: So first of all, she tries to cut her own hair like, I think, Carey Mulligan.
Emma: Cutting your own hair is always a bad idea I think.
Lori F.: The haircut may explain Lena's short hair, though.
Lori L.: I loved that Laird was honest with Hannah.
Emma: He called Hannah out, and it was sort of amazing.
Margaret: Yes, has anyone called her out that explicitly?
Lori L.: My favorite line: "It's a pretty dark scene inside your head."
Emma: "You are the most self-involved, presumptuous person I have ever met, ever. I had feelings for you, sure, until I realized how rotten your insides are."
Margaret: I loved when she told him, I didn't think about you as a person." At least she was honest.
Lori F.: But before that she made it like he was going to make a pass at her like he did before. Which he did not.
Lori L.: That was so troubling.
Emma: Terrible.
Lori L.: Showed how much she's lost it.
Emma: She deserved to be called out for that. And I appreciated that she apologized. Her apology felt honest.
Margaret: See, I thought that was normal Hannah making an appearance.
Emma: Yeah, it seemed like normal self-centered, outrageous-comments Hannah.
Margaret: It made me feel like she's not completely gone.
Lori L.: I thought it was so deluded.
Emma: It absolutely was! But she says deluded things all the time.
Lori L.: Right, but this was SO off. I thought it suggested deeper delusion than usual.
Margaret: Like her statement that she was getting frail.
Lori F.: Yes, and he told her she was still voluptuous.
Emma: I think she just wanted Laird to make her feel good about herself.
Margaret: I was glad when Hannah called Jessa and finally said what's going on for her, just summarized the whole thing.
Emma: And you really felt how deserted Hannah feels.
Lori F.: Yes, and it makes sense that she really needs Jessa right now.
Emma: Right -- Jessa is the one she NEEDS to talk to.
Lori F.: And that she's pissed that she's gone.
Emma: Which makes complete sense.
Lori L.: That was an amazing voice mail.
Emma: Jessa just peaced out and literally left Hannah
Margaret: Also, where is Jessa?
Emma: I was really surprised she didn't come back.
Margaret: For the finale? I thought she would have too.
Emma: I thought she was going to walk into Hannah's messy apartment and discover her having a meltdown at some point. Instead she's just still off on her soul-searching adventures "probably wearing a crop top."
Margaret: I thought this episode was in part about Hannah learning to ask for help.
Lori L.: And learning that she's alienated a lot of people.
Emma: Yes! She admitted that she had driven everyone around her away.
Lori L.: And so when she needs help, they're not all there to save her
Margaret: Except Adam, apparently.
Lori L.: Right.
Emma: I liked that Hannah tried Jessa first. And it was only when she couldn't reach her that she turned to Adam.
Margaret: I know recognizing her OCD and running over to her apartment is supposed to be heroic of him, but I did not like this ending.

AND THEY LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER?
Lori F.: OK, so a few things: 1) So Hannah apparently opened up to him about OCD? And he really got it. 2) It was interesting how Adam went from villain to hero in one episode.
Emma: Yeah, I was sort of surprised that he knew she had struggled with OCD.
Lori L.: Really? He's had his share of issues -- I can totally see her confiding in him.
Margaret: Me too.
Emma: It made sense to me once I thought about it.
Margaret: She'll confide in anyone.
Lori F.: But not about this. I don't think she opens up to just anyone about this.
Emma: Not at all. It's unclear whether Marnie knows the full extent of it.
Lori F.: And it just felt like he really knew the history and the complications of it. Which makes me think their relationship was even deeper than I realized.
Lori L.: And he is kind of the only person who COULD understand her situation. He's an addict. He too has hit rock bottom.
Emma: Exactly -- that's what I meant.
Margaret: But I did not like this ending
Emma: It gave a better perspective to how intense their relationship had been. I felt VERY torn about the ending.
Margaret: I feel like Hannah has wanted rescue for a while, and instead of rescuing herself, the show has Adam do it.



Emma: Yeah, that was my issue with it too.
Margaret: He calls her kid and holds her like a baby at the end.
Lori L.: I absolutely see your point.
Margaret: After breaking the door down. There was something Stanley Kowalski about it. At the end, after he's possibly raped Blanche, he picks up Stella and carries her into the house, and she takes him back.
Lori L.: I did not like the image of him literally sweeping her off her feet and saving her.
Emma: It felt very stereotypical: Love saves everything.
Margaret: Especially on top of the Marnie-Charlie business.
Lori L.: But I wonder if this also has to do with Adam's need to redeem himself after last week. To see himself as not just a predator but as a savior, a mensch.
Lori F.: Or Lena's need to redeem the character
Margaret: I can see that
Emma: It made sense to me in the sense that he does really love Hannah. It didn't seem out of character that he would run shirtless to help her, playing the masculine hero.
Lori L.: But it's interesting that Lena enacted it with so much symbolism.
Margaret: I also think that Adam and Hannah make more sense together than they do with anyone on the show.
Emma: Right! The symbolism was what threw me.
Lori L.: I mean he could have come in to the apartment without breaking down the door and just gotten into bed and snuggled with her.
Emma: I agree with you completely, Lori L.
Margaret: Adam's not a great snuggler.
Lori L.: Instead, he breaks down the door and sweeps her up and presses her against his buff, bare, sweaty torso!
Emma: It felt very fairy-tale/rom-com ending. Which is odd for "Girls."
Margaret: It was very strange to me
Lori F.: I have to say, though, that I liked last episode better. It made me think more. In this episode, I felt like I knew what she wanted me to think.
Emma: And none of the women were together.
Lori L.: Right, so what is she getting at here?
Emma: They were all with men.
Margaret: Right. We can assume Jessa is with some dude wherever she is. Because dudes love her.
Emma: Do you think we're supposed to feel sort of weird about it? Or were we supposed to take it at face value?
Margaret: I think we're supposed to think it's weird. I think Lena's going to turn it around next season
Emma: I agree. Especially because of that line about friendship.
Lori L.: But there are probably plenty of viewers who are not overthinking it like we are
Emma: True.
Lori L.: Who just see it as a season finale with a dramatic ending.
Lori F.: So what do we think happens to Adam and Hannah next season? Where does it go from here?
Emma: Well, I hope it goes back to focusing on the relationships between the women. Because those feel pretty broken still. Marnie has thrown herself into a man and Hannah has been saved by a man and Shosh is stopping her neuroses with a blonde man.I think Hannah needed Adam's help in this episode -- but ultimately she will have to save herself.
Lori L.: Oh, Emma, that neuroses will never be "stopped."
Emma: Very true. ATTEMPTING to stop them.
Margaret: Calming, temporarily
Lori F.: Of all of them, I am the least worried about Shosh.
Emma: Definitely.
Margaret: She's been freed, and she actually did free herself
Lori L.: Oh yeah, she's going to be fine.
Emma: Yeah, she's being 21. She'll be fine.
Margaret: She should write a book responding to the "ladies" book. What happens to Ray now?
Emma: He becomes [insert fancy title for manager here] at Grumpy's in Brooklyn Heights and sulks a lot?
Lori L.: "Brooklyn Heights is classy"
Margaret: And Jessa will blow back into town just the way Marnie loves and Hannah will write her book and be with Adam?
Emma: Will Hannah actually write her book? Wasn't she supposed to send her editor pages that day?
Lori L.: Yeah, the next season will start with Hannah being served papers.
Margaret: So much to look forward to.
Emma: So glad "Girls" got renewed for a third season.
Lori L.: Do we know when it's starting up again?
Lori F.: Not yet.
Margaret: I hope it's soon. I look forward to our next confab.
Lori F.: I will buy you all bread-shaped handbags to celebrate the return.
Lori L.: And Cool Whip?
Emma: Just please don't bring me Q-tips.
Margaret: The end.

Read HuffPost Women's Previous "Girls" Gchats:

SEASON 2

Episode 9: The Darkest Yet

Episode 8: Who's Counting?

Episode 7: Where Jessas Come From

Episode 6: "Like A Man"

Episode 5: "I Want All The Things"

Episode 4: "We're Adults Here"

Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens

Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm

Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"


SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!

Episode 9: You Are The Wound

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad

Episode 7: The Best Party Ever

Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again

Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"

Episode 4: I Just Want Someone Who Thinks I'm The Best Person In The World

Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?

Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To

Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering

RELATED ON HUFFPOST WOMEN:



QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
]]> Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:20:51 EDT 2897584 Lori: Hi everyone. OK, so whoa, I am still kind of stunned by this episode.
But before we begin, we need to introduce Jessica Samakow, HuffPost Parents associate editor and our first "Girls" chat guest. Margaret and Lori Leibovich are at SXSW, so Jess has kindly agreed to join us.
Jessica: Yes, happy to be here!
Lori: You joined for quite an episode.
Emma: Seriously! Tonight was really difficult to watch.
Jessica: This was intense.
Emma: I'd say that this was the darkest "Girls" has gone in its two seasons. We really saw a lot of the characters hit rock bottom (or on their way to hitting rock bottom) tonight.

THE HONEYMOON PHASE
Emma: Let's start with Adam, since he's the first one we see.
Lori: And because clearly we need to discuss his story ASAP.
Jessica: ASAP.
Emma: So we start off in the honeymoon/fairy-tale version of Adam and Natalia's relationship.
Jessica: The line that stuck out most for me in that first scene was when she said she was ready to have sex because he had been "really nice all week."
Emma: I think we started to see how different the two of them really are, but at this point they haven't had to confront those differences. Their first sex scene was sort of awkward, but she seemed very into it and into him and she was clear about what she wanted. Which was a big change from Hannah.
Lori: And he was so willing to do what SHE wants. So two things: 1) It makes you wonder how things would have been if Hannah had been more assertive about her needs and 2) It sets us up for the huge shift in dynamics we see later.
Emma: Right. And this honeymoon phase lasts long enough for Natalia to invite Adam to an engagement party -- not the sort of event you associate Adam with. One of the biggest themes of this episode was a lot of the characters giving into their weaknesses in one way or another. I think we saw that when Natalia asks Adam if it's OK if she drinks.
Jessica: I had a feeling, too, that he was going to drink. He definitely felt uncomfortable in the beginning, which is why he went outside.
Lori: Before we even get to the engagement party, I just want to note the line where he says, "I'd rather you be fat and healthy" in their discussion of artificial sweeteners.
Emma: Oh, I totally missed that line!
Jessica: I loved that. And she says "thanks."
Lori: I believe him on that, and I might not with other guys.
Emma: I absolutely believe him on that.
Jessica: I do too -- it reminded me of last season when he told Hannah that she doesn't know what problems are because she's 12 pounds overweight.
Lori: Right, that's a good point, Jess.

"THE FACE OF AN OLD-TIMEY CRIMINAL"
Lori: So at the engagement party... first of all, hello, Amy Schumer!
Emma: She was excellent.
Lori: You can see Adam's discomfort escalating. He's at an engagement party, his girlfriend is drinking, her friend is clearly unimpressed with him...
Emma: She thinks he "has the face of an old-timey criminal." Such a good line.
Lori: Oh, and she mentioned that his girlfriend blew her cousin. So there's that.
Jessica: "But that was a long time ago."
Emma: These are very obviously NOT Adam's people. He doesn't want to get wasted or talk about how pissed he is about missing the game.
Jessica: I laughed out loud at that "oh fuck" about the game.
Emma: So perfectly deadpan. Adam has a lot of traditionally masculine interests and qualities, but liking sports is not one of them.
Lori: And since he's surrounded by these people who are so foreign to him, running into Hannah just totally throws him. It's confusing.
Emma: Yeah, running into Hannah was obviously incredibly jarring for him.
Jessica: And her.



THE PANTSLESS RUN-IN
Emma: Of COURSE she would run into Adam at that moment. It was a really difficult interaction to watch, and I thought that they both played that discomfort brilliantly. You could feel it boiling beneath their conversation.
Jessica: I was a little surprised by their interaction.
Emma: How so, Jess?
Jessica: Because Hannah is usually so self-absorbed and thinks Adam is still in love with her. So I'd expect her to be more like, "Oh... a girlfriend, I'm glad you're trying to get over me," the way Marnie is with Charlie. But she didn't make it about herself.
Lori: I don't think she would verbalize it like that. I think she was just sad about the loss of a relationship she cared about, especially when he calls her kid.
Emma: I agree, Lori. Their interaction felt pretty real to me. And the look on her face when she hears that he has a girlfriend says it all.
Jessica: That's true, I guess she didn't have to say it.
Lori: Especially since it's a girlfriend with a cool-girl name with friends getting engaged. Someone seemingly more sophisticated than her.
Jessica: Right, she feels like she is "losing" to him.
Emma: She also has lost a lot of her bravado over the last few weeks. She's exhausted, mentally and emotionally.
Lori: Yes, she's totally vulnerable.
Jessica: And defeated at that point, after the hospital.
Lori: Though I have to agree with Adam: Why isn't she wearing pants??
Emma: Because she's a complete and utter mess. She has gauze in her ear, no pants on and her hospital bracelet still on.
Lori: Yes, but she's walking around NYC. You would think she would throw on cotton shorts or something.
Jessica: Or something, exactly.
Emma: Well we know Hannah doesn't have a fashion filter. I mean... THAT MESH GREEN TOP.
Lori: Yellow? Or green?
Emma: Neon.
Jessica: I thought yellow. (Important.)
Emma: Well, regardless. If anyone would walk around New York pantsless, it would be Hannah.
Jessica: Should we move back to Adam?

"GET ON ALL FOURS"
Lori: The second Adam ordered the Jack and ginger, I said, "Oh no!" aloud.
Jessica: Me too! I cringed.
Emma: I gasped.
Lori: I said that a lot this episode, for so many different types of things. But this was so sad. He's been sober since like 17. I was surprised she went along with it. Her mother is in AA.
Emma: Also, I'm not sure I realized until that moment just how deeply Hannah affected him. But Natalia couldn't keep him from doing it. She has to trust that he knows himself.
Lori: She could have said something. She's obviously spent time around alcoholics.
Jessica: She seemed to embrace it, though. She wasn't concerned that he was getting a drink.
Emma: I was sort of surprised that he felt so thrown that he drank, whereas last week he seemed so self-assured.
Jessica: Right.
Lori: She was more interested in having him party with her rather than making sure he was taking care of himself.
Jessica: I thought it was sad that he said he wanted to drink so he could have fun with her.
Emma: Yeah, that's a serious red flag in that relationship.
Lori: I thought the scenes of them dancing were perfect, if incredibly sad. It really captured the euphoria you can feel when the alcohol is hitting just right.
Emma: I agree. Also how getting drunk and avoiding your issues and dancing makes things feel all better in that moment -- even if they feel worse later on.
Jessica: So then, back at his apartment...
Lori: Horrifying.
Emma: Absolutely horrifying... the whole thing.
Lori: I had my hand over my mouth the whole time.
Jessica: It took such a dramatic turn. He kissed her then just flipped a switch and told her to get on all fours. Which was horrendous -- but I was upset that Natalia listened.
Emma: It wasn't the dominant-submissive situation that bothered me in and of itself -- it was how clearly she didn't want to be involved.
Jessica: Right.
Emma: People can play out sexual fantasies like that one and it can be safe and loving and hot. But this was none of those things.
Jessica: Definitely not.
Lori: I wasn't upset at her. She was probably scared. He was creepy -- following her down the hall into the bedroom.
Emma: He was incredibly creepy in this.
Lori: She doesn't really even know this guy that well and she's at his weird apartment.
Emma: He was forcing her into a sexual situation that she wasn't comfortable with. It was disturbing to watch.
Jessica: I wasn't upset AT her, just upset that it happened. I was saying, "Stand up! Leave!"
Emma: And then she asks him not to cum on her dress... The whole thing just felt disgusting. And it was Adam giving into this side of himself that I don't even think he likes.
Jessica: I felt awful for her.
Emma: It's interesting because some of the Adam-Hannah sex scenes were uncomfortable and somewhat upsetting ... but they were never like this.
Lori: Right, this scene reminded me of the first sex scene with Hannah, but it was far more horrific.
Jessica: Yeah, I was thinking that, and trying to figure out why it was SO different. I think because Natalia was trying to say no.
Emma: Right. Hannah can get into Adam's kinky side.
Jessica: Even when she felt uncomfortable, she didn't seem violated. Whereas he completely violated Natalia.
Emma: Hannah was a much more willing, playful partner. And she and Adam knew each other much better. This was completely one-sided. And the fact that he was immediately horrified after means that he KNEW what he was doing was wrong and crossing the line. And he still gave into his worst instincts and did it.
Lori: It will be interesting to see where Lena takes his story line from here. He's no longer just a weird guy with rage issues. He fucked up in a big way.
Jessica: I think we can assume that's the end of Natalia. But what next with Adam?
Emma: I hope he gets himself back to AA....
Jessica: In a different meeting, not with her mom...
Lori: I honestly feel like I'm still processing this scene. The first thing I thought of was Joan's rape scene in "Mad Men" -- it seemed that pivotal.
Emma: Yeah, I actually thought about that scene too. I'm very curious to see how Lena will address the seriousness of how Adam acted... I think we all need more time to think about that scene. I don't feel like my thoughts are fully formed yet.
Lori: I just don't remember being that shaken by a TV scene in a long time.
Jessica: Me either, especially since Adam has always been a favorite of mine.
Emma: I think that's what was even more upsetting about it. Seeing a character we've gotten to know and sympathize with much more this season do something so awful.
Jessica: Exactly!

THE MOST UNCOMFORTABLE KANYE COVER
Emma: But since we can't talk about Adam forever, let's move on to someone who also embraced her weaknesses (albeit in a much less destructive way) -- Marnie.
Lori: I was horrified by her too -- but in such a different way. Embarrassed is more like it.
Emma: She's "following her dream" by bullying Ray into helping her "lay down a track." She is trying to do what she loves, but she's still flailing. This week felt very much in line with where Marnie was last week.
Jessica: I mean -- you can't just show up at your ex-boyfriend's "AMU" work party and take it upon yourself to perform a Kanye cover song.
Lori: By the way, I loved when Ray said, "I've been known to dabble in the Macintosh arts."
Jessica: Loved.
Emma: But before the party, Marnie shows up at Charlie's office ... AGAIN.
Lori: But it was his fault! They had plans.
Emma: I actually wrote "Marnie, WTF are you doing???" in my notes.
Jessica: They did have plans.
Emma: I know. But before we knew that. I was horrified.
Lori: Right, I had the same reaction.
Jessica: Same.
Emma: Charlie was sort of obnoxious with the whole "I'm so successful that I forgot our plans" thinking. And he obviously invited her to his app party out of guilt.
Jessica: Right, he feels bad for her. Which he says many times.



Lori: So I'm sorry, but that song. First of all, it is not for Charlie. It is all about her. Also, a slowed-down version of "Stronger" -- WHAT? Charlie looked appalled.
Jessica: Those lyrics were not meant to be slowed down.
Emma: EVERYONE looked appalled.
Jessica: Except Ray. He knew what was coming.
Emma: I think my face looked like everyone's at that hip meatpacking app party.
Lori: Of all people, you would think Marnie would be better at social context.
Emma: You would. But she's been demonstrating a lack of judgment recently in that respect. Her dress at Booth's party, showing up at Charlie's office last week, etc. (Also side note: Mia Farrow feels our emotional pain about this episode.)
Lori: It was nice of Ray to cheer for her.
Jessica: I have a prediction: I think Ray and Marnie are going to hook up at some point. Just putting it out there.
Lori: I hope not. I don't want this to go all "Gossip Girl" on us. But I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility either, sadly.
Jessica: I hope not, too -- I just have a small feeling. Ray is going to be a mess when he finds out that Shosh cheated on him for real, and Marnie is right there.
Lori: So Charlie tells Marnie to get her shit together because she's flailing. And he's completely right.
Emma: He is right. But it sort of bothers me how cold he is.
Lori: And then she goes into therapy-speak with, "I'm on a journey."
Emma: She sounded sort of Hannah-like.
Jessica: "Sometimes being good all of the time doesn't feel good." That's a paraphrase, but that was DEEP, Marnie.
Emma: "I am OK."
Jessica: Thanks, Dr. Phil.
Emma: And his reaction to her rambling is just to make out with her. We knew they'd have a post-breakup hookup at some point.
Lori: That is Charlie's go-to reaction with Marnie.
Jessica: It still surprised me, though.
Lori: By the way, is Audrey out of the picture? Do we know?
Jessica: I was going to ask that! I think so... otherwise she would have been there.
Emma: I guess so? She was pretty angry at him when he ditched her for Marnie at Hannah's dinner party. Maybe we're supposed to assume that they broke up after that?
Jessica: Probably. I was a little surprised that they had sex, especially in his office. He seemed so genuinely horrified by her and embarrassed. I thought he was going to reprimand her and then storm out or something.
Lori: I wasn't surprised. He's feeling powerful and still has feelings for her. And she's attracted to his new power and is vulnerable. Like when he said he didn't care who saw -- this is a new Alpha Charlie.
Emma: Exactly! I think part of him really enjoys being on top now. Figuratively and literally, apparently.
Jessica: Yeah, it makes sense. I just thought maybe her Kanye stunt was the last straw.
Emma: This sex scene was in such contrast to their gentle sex during the first season.
Lori: And she's turned on by it, I think.
Jessica: Definitely. It's what was lacking from their relationship in the first place. The dominance and adventure.
Emma: He's successful and can have sex with Marnie in his office and be the sort of cold, hot, guy that he wasn't before. His "who gives a fuck" line was very telling.
Lori: Charlie's so on his game that he could even have sex with Shosh if he wants, as she tells him. So... should we talk about her and Ray?

"I HELD HANDS WITH THE DOORMAN"
Jessica: That line was amazing. And yes, we should. First, the peace-sign robe.
Emma: Ray is ROCKING that robe. It was pretty much the only happy part of this episode.



Jessica: "Girls" Instagram posted a "Who wore it better?" split shot of Shosh wearing it last season and Ray in it this week. Brilliant.
Lori: So Shosh is obviously trying to make up for her guilt with her "geisha shit."
Emma: Yeah, this entire episode she's trying to deal with the fact that she made out with a doorman and cheated on Ray... and she's completely unsuccessful.
Jessica: She cannot hide it.
Emma: And Ray is sweeter than he's been in weeks.
Jessica: Which is adding to her guilt. He apologized!
Emma: I think the contrast between his behavior this week and the way he usually behaves was very intentional.
Lori: "You, like, don't apologize -- you're famous for it."
Emma: That was so Shosh. Also, her donut-style half-up sock bun? Even more outrageous than her side braid.
Jessica: But his Ray-ness came out at the party. "Do you want a shitty beer?"
Lori: Yes, his Ray-ness in that he's uncomfortable with success. In this case, Charlie's.
Emma: He's jealous. Charlie was always his equal, and now Charlie's much more successful. And throwing "bourgie" parties.
Jessica: And no longer singing "In Those Keds" together.
Lori: Hahaha. Now that is going to be stuck in my head.
Emma: A true classic.
Jessica: We can play it at the office soon? But back to Shosh.
Lori: I loved when she was talking to that guy at the party who said restaurants are his passion. Another nice touch
Jessica: Hahaha that was amazing, and she was so taken by that.
Emma: The whole party was such a wonderful parody of that kind of party. Everyone was in plaid even though they were partying in a hip minimalist office in Chelsea.
Jessica: Did you guys catch the crying girl in the beginning? When they panned the scene, there was a girl crying on the phone. Casually in the middle. Because obviously.
Emma: No, but I DID catch that the DJ was playing Santigold's "Girls" before Marnie went rogue and started singing.
Jessica: With her first-edition iPod.
Emma: I think that Shosh has lost interest in her relationship with Ray, hence the hitting on Charlie and the flirting with some plaid-clad boring guy.
Lori: I think it's a combination of being disillusioned with him and feeling guilty about what she did. So less time with him = better.
Emma: Agreed.
Jessica: Right, she's overwhelmed with guilt. (It's not that she thinks he's too tall because he's not even that tall.)
Emma: She's not really mature enough to deal with the issue head-on.
Lori: I think this is the first time we've seen Shosh be dishonest.
Jessica: Which is probably why Ray believed her when she said she "held hands" with the doorman.
Emma: Even after Ray gives her an easy way to confess. He calls her out on her behavior, and she still hedges. I was really disappointed in her.
Jessica: I get it, though. She's terrified to tell him.
Emma: I get it too. She's 21 and has never been in a real relationship before and she did something that she knows is not going to end well.
Lori: But when she lies, he thinks she's cute to be upset about that -- and doesn't realize she has a real reason to be upset.
Emma: I felt so bad for Ray. He really loves her so much.
Jessica: Me too. I think she's going to tell him next episode. She can't hold it in much longer.
Lori: He says, "I love you so much," and her response is, "Oh. Good." Not a good sign.
Jessica: Red flag.
Emma: Terrible. I think that we're going to see this relationship end next episode.


"IF YOU'RE NOT GETTING F**KED RIGHT NOW, MAKE IT UP"
Emma: So should we move on to Hannah?
Lori: Yes. Poor Hannah. Her scenes were so emotionally and physically painful.
Lori: Actually this whole episode was painful, in different senses of the word and to varying degrees.



Emma: I agree. But I love that Lena isn't just having a character's mental health issues go away in one week. This isn't a gimmick -- it's a serious reality for this character.
Lori: And she's really making us see them up close. So first her meeting with the publisher...
Emma: If anything could make her anxiety worse, it's this. He completely dismisses her work, which in essence, means that he's completely dismissing Hannah. Because to her, she is her work.



Lori: "Did your hymen grow back?" He's so rude, telling her he didn't read her pages because he didn't want to.
Jessica: That was harsh.
Emma: And he completely dismissed her writing about friendship as though if you're not confessing your sexual misadventures, first-person writing isn't worthwhile.
Lori: Right, he's much more interested in her story of sex with a teenager.
Jessica: And he so casually suggests she should turn it into a novel as if that's like changing some punctuation.
Emma: "If you're not getting fucked right now, make it up. Can you make it a novel?"
Lori: By the way, the title he comes up with, "My Life on My Back," reminds me of Chelsea Handler's "My Horizontal Life."
Jessica: I was thinking that! Exactly like Chelsea Handler's book. I wondered if that was on purpose.

THE Q-TIP INCIDENT
Lori: So the hospital incident.
Emma: First she's on the floor, writing with no pants on, while eating olives and getting splinters in her butt.
Jessica: As soon as she started with the Q-tip, I knew what was going to happen. I had to look away.
Lori: We see immediately how alone she is. She calls her parents first, which makes sense because they'll understand, but then goes to hospital by herself. Only to face an unsympathetic doctor.
Emma: I think that the theme of Hannah's story line was loneliness. She has almost no other human interaction the whole episode.
Jessica: No positive human interaction, that is.
Emma: Right. I meant no other interaction with the main characters -- her best friends. No one calls her to check up on her!
Jessica: And she doesn't call them either. She tells her parents that she has 12 to 15 close friends. Which only made it more obvious that she has no one.
Lori: Also, when she tells the doctor, "I was just trying to clean myself out" and asks him to clean the other one, I felt terrible for her.
Jessica: I felt so bad for her.
Lori: I think the idea of trying to clean herself speaks to something more than just stress or OCD. It's like she's literally trying to purge imperfections from her body. Or imperfections generally, I guess.
Emma: She just wants all of her issues to go away. And I completely get that feeling. Anyone who's struggled with anxiety knows that you can feel it in your whole body, and all you want to do is get it out of your body. It made me incredibly anxious to watch her. And then she almost tries to use the doctor as her confessional sounding board, as someone to open up to. Which only highlighted her loneliness more.
Jessica: And he wasn't having it.
Emma: Do we think that her friends have no idea that she's struggling right now?
Lori: I don't think they do.
Jessica: I think they know that she is stressed, but I don't think they know about her OCD. So they probably think it's normal work stress. I don't think they know how severe it is.
Lori: It's kind of incredible how much we've shifted our view of Hannah this season.
Emma: I think the turning point was the Joshua episode.
Jessica: This was the first episode where at no point did I want to say, "Shut up, Hannah." She usually is so self-absorbed, and she says things that make me dislike her instead of sympathizing with her. Like when she tells her parents that they're "lucky" that she's not a drug addict.
Emma: Right, now she's stripped-down Hannah. Emotionally stripped down, to clarify.
Lori: Yeah, she's got my total sympathy whereas at the beginning of the season, she was really trying my patience. And then that last scene was especially heartbreaking.
Emma: When she went to "even out" her other ear, I almost closed my eyes it was so hard to watch.
Lori: When she puts the Q-tip in the other ear, I assume that's due to the OCD?
Emma: Yes.
Jessica: Yeah, she didn't feel right till she did that.
Emma: Exactly, she NEEDED to even out her ears. I just want someone to realize what she's going through.
Jessica: Me too -- I think that's the hardest part to swallow. She's so lonely.
Lori: Well, this was certainly the darkest, most emotionally draining episode we've seen. It makes me think "Girls" may take directions we wouldn't have predicted.
Jessica: Right, it's not just going to be about bad sex.
Emma: I appreciate how they're taking risks this season.
Lori: I'm going to leave you guys on this somewhat happier note: Ray loves Katy Perry.
Jessica: Haha! Yes.
Emma: He would.
Lori: The End?
Emma: Yes!
Jessica: Thanks for having me, guys.

Read HuffPost Women's Previous "Girls" Gchats:

SEASON 2

Episode 8: Who's Counting?

Episode 7: Where Jessas Come From

Episode 6: "Like A Man"

Episode 5: "I Want All The Things"

Episode 4: "We're Adults Here"

Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens

Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm

Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"


SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!

Episode 9: You Are The Wound

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad

Episode 7: The Best Party Ever

Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again

Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"

Episode 4: I Just Want Someone Who Thinks I'm The Best Person In The World

Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?

Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To

Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering

RELATED ON HUFFPOST WOMEN:

QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:50:42 EDT 2844269 THE SECRET
Emma: So we open with Adam this time.
Lori L.: Yes!
Emma: I'm excited that we've gotten to see more of him without Hannah this season.
Lori L.: Me too. He's so much more interesting/likable when he's separate from her.
Margaret: It feels to me like there's been more sustained focus on individual characters rather than the ensemble this season, and not just in the Patrick Wilson episode and on Jessa's trip home last week. Am I just imagining that?
Lori L.: No, its true, and I like it better.
Margaret: I think you're right about Adam, Lori L. I like seeing him not in relation to Hannah. It's great to see him have his own story
Margaret: And he's so wonderfully weird.
Emma: Agreed. He was very likable this episode. Also it was a totally Adam move to drink milk that had been sitting next to his bed.
Margaret: Ugh. Very like him.
Lori F.: Also, does Adam have a flip phone?
Margaret: Does he?
Emma: HE DOES.
Margaret: Note that you are a BlackBerry user, Lori F.
Lori F.: I knew I was setting myself up for that.
Lori L.: I was just going to point that out.
Margaret: So should we start with the counting?
Emma: I didn't quite understand what was going on at first. At first I thought that Hannah was just paranoid about Adam.
Lori F.: It was clear there was some kind of compulsive behavior going on, but I didn't know exactly what.
Emma: I think it fully sank in when she was counting her chips.
Lori L.: I thought it was a dieting thing.
Margaret: Oh, interesting. I can see that.
Lori F.: I would have except that she was doing it with everything.
Margaret: Did this feel REALLY out of the blue to anyone else?
Lori F.: Yes, definitely.
Lori L.: It did to me too -- and yet somehow it fits.
Lori F.: I don't think there were hints. Or at least if there were, I missed them.
Margaret: Well, that's what I wondered -- did I miss some clue earlier on?
Emma: I'm willing to buy the explanation that it hasn't acted up since high school. She's clearly traumatized about it, so she doesn't tell people that it's something she's struggled with.
Lori L.: And that the book deadline spurred it again.
Margaret: I agree that it fits her, but I'd be more impressed with the writers if she referred back to something in an earlier episode that we wouldn't have noticed but makes it make sense now.
Lori F.: Well, there was her big secret about masturbation that she told Marnie (which she mentions later).
Emma: True! Honestly, I'm just excited that they decided to tackle mental health at all.
Margaret: Did that surprise you? I feel like the show is very much Generation Therapy.
Lori L.: Emma, I am so with you. It's actually been niggling at me both seasons. There is no way that not one of these characters has a therapist, or doesn't reference a medication.
Emma: Right. It HAD to come up.
Margaret: That hadn't occurred to me, and I think you're right. I'm surprised Hannah hasn't been in weekly therapy for years, actually. She would love the audience.
Emma: But she's very resistant to the idea that she has an issue to deal with.
Margaret: Well, this issue at least.
Lori L.: That resistance made sense to me, though.
Emma: It made sense to me, too. It's part of the stress. She has a book to finish. She doesn't have time to have an issue.
Emma: Right. And I think she feels as if her entire career hangs on this project.
Lori L.: Because, well, it kinda does.
Emma: Yeah, I guess that's true as of now. It's her first big opportunity.
Margaret: I was just thinking that. Even if it doesn't do well, when she tries to do future stuff, those she pitches will look at this first book.
Emma: Okay, so we next see Hannah meeting up with her parents at the Carlyle -- fashionably late, of course.


"A HANNAH CUSHION"



Emma: "I always factor in a Hannah cushion of 15 to 45 minutes." I love her parents.
Margaret: I loved them more than ever this episode
Lori F.: Yes, I love them this episode too. You see how much they care about her. Not that it was in question, but there is genuine concern and understanding.
Emma: Absolutely. They don't always know how to help her, but they try to as best they can. I loved how right away her mom noticed her tics and asked her about them at dinner.
Margaret: It was also interesting that this brings her back under her parents' wing at the moment she's breaking out on her own. I wondered if it was subconscious. She doesn't want to need them and doesn't want to have an issue, like Lori L. said, but this is involving them more, not less.
Lori F.: You mean like she really needed someone to take care of her?
Emma: I didn't think it was a subconscious call for help from her parents. I felt more like it was just the way her mind is dealing with being completely overwhelmed. She has this book deal, her friend just ditched her in upstate New York, her other best friend is pretty cut off from her. She doesn't have a whole lot of support right now. Plus she has this potentially life-altering book deal which she's so anxious about that she can't really write it.
Lori F.: So do you think this is a way of her feeling in control of something?
Margaret: I think that makes sense, too. I think it can be both.
Lori L.: I agree with Margaret's first comment -- she actually needs her parents right now. She's terrified of the book because if she succeeds or fails, either way it's her first big step as an adult. I also agree that she's also very vulnerable because of the breakup with Adam, the rift with Jessa, Marnie's distance.... It's all really destabilizing and terrifying.
Margaret: And when you're in your early 20s, I think it's easy to fall back into whatever behaviors you used to comfort yourself when you were younger.
Emma: That's very true.

"I HATE IT WHEN YOU LOOK SO CONCERNED ABOUT ME"
Emma: I found it realistic that she was so resistant to admitting to her parents that this issue had crept back up. And you really could feel her struggling to not count at dinner.
Lori L.: Her mother seems so on top of it all, and her father rather clueless and in denial.
Emma: I think he tries to keep the peace all the time. And her mom has to say the tough things.
Lori L.: As a side note: I used to sing that Judy Collins song at camp. I knew every word.



Lori F.: I loved when Hannah told her parents that genetics was "the ultimate your fault."
Lori L.: LOVED.
Emma: I laughed out loud at that line.
Margaret: They always get back to this: Hannah blames her parents for her problems, her dad is confounded and her mom gets defensive.
Emma: It was also interesting that her parents' suggested solution was to take her away from everything and go back to the Midwest.
Lori L.: To her pediatrician!
Margaret: Her parents are in regression mode, too. Well, her father is. I think he would love to have her home. Her mother, less so.
Lori F.: I think she's his little girl, and he just wants to protect her
Emma: For everything Hannah is though, she's not one to run away. If she's going to deal with her OCD, she's going to do it from New York.
Margaret: One thing I really liked about this experience for her is that I didn't get any sense that it was "for the story." She was genuinely freaked out and did not want to think about or talk about it. She didn't want it to exist.
Emma: I agree. And it makes so much sense. She's filled with shame about it. And unfortunately I think that's how a lot of people feel about mental health issues.
Lori F.: Yes, definitely. This is NOT the story she wants to tell, although it's fascinating. Much more interesting than her coke adventures, I think.
Emma: Absolutely.
Lori L.: Agree, and it was so much easier to sympathize with her over this.
Margaret: Much easier.
Lori L.: She became real in some sense, and not just an actress in her own life story.
Margaret: Yes! She wanted no role in this.
Lori L.: And OCD isn't literary the way depression and addiction can be. There's no good material here.
Lori F.: But that's exactly it -- she thinks there's no material because she's so focused on what others might want to read.
Margaret: And we are fascinated by it.
Emma: Right. If she wrote more about her real experience, other people would probably connect to her more.
Lori L.: What about her dad's clueless anorexia comments?
Emma: Oh god, that was cringe-worthy.
Lori F.: "I've seen you in a bathing suit." Oh, wow, Mr. Horvath.
Margaret: You know what's weird -- it actually didn't bother me that much. It was just so hapless on his part.
Emma: Yeah, it felt more clueless than thoughtless.
Margaret: And Hannah was making a joke about herself, but not in a self-loathing way. Saying "maybe I'm anorexic" was just a way of being a pain in the ass to her mom.
Margaret: What did you guys think of her therapist?



Lori F.: Well, I loved the casting of Bob Balaban.
Emma: Me too. Adore him.
Lori L.: That was genius.
Margaret: Has he played a shrink before? He's very good at it.
Lori L.: I feel like he has.
Emma: If he hadn't, he should again. It worked.
Margaret: It was so brilliant that the psychologist she's landed with is a mega bestselling author. How HELPFUL.
Emma: So do we think that she's going to continue seeing her therapist?
Lori F.: I hope so, for her sake and for ours.
Emma: She obviously needs to be in therapy. I felt so sad for her when she said "I will really do anything you say if you just tell my parents I'm OK."



Lori L.: I know. That was heartbreaking.
Margaret: She's making that request for her, right? Not for them? And if she is doing it for herself, is that because she wants her parents off her back or because telling her parents she's OK would in some way make her feel like she was OK?
Emma: Maybe both. Mostly for herself though. She's scared to deal with her issues -- which is a fairly natural response.
Lori F.: I took it as meaning that she didn't want to be there, not that she was trying to make them feel better. But now that you mention it, I like that it could go either way.
Margaret: She echoed her request to the shrink when she said to her dad in the subway, "I hate it when you look so concerned about me." That was even more heartbreaking to me.
Lori F.: Me too. All she wants is to feel normal and OK.
Emma: And who doesn't?
Lori F.: Right, and to have her parents concerned about her -- there's an outside party indicating to her that she's not OK. It's not just her own concern.
Margaret: I think right now her feeling safe is somewhat contingent on them thinking she's safe.
Emma: Should we move on to Adam?

"I WANTED THAT CHANCE TO SHOW SOMEONE EVERYTHING"
Margaret: Adam is also feeling less safe right now, too. How does he put it exactly?
Emma: He says he hasn't felt "as solid" lately. So he goes to an AA meeting. We already knew Adam was in AA, but it was great to see him in that setting. It also shows his maturity, especially compared to Hannah. Whereas Hannah needs to be PUSHED into therapy, he takes his well-being really seriously and knows how to help himself.
Lori F.: Right, I think he learned some of that through AA. When to reach out, how to cope with rough times, etc.



Lori L.: I thought his speech was vulnerable and honest and mature and wonderfully articulate. Even though he's a mess in some ways, he's actually taken control of his addiction.
Margaret: I think of all of the characters, Adam has the most accurate take on relationships and how to live honestly.
Emma: And he is very self-aware about his relationship with Hannah.
Lori F.: "It started to feel better when she was there. It wasn't love the way I imagined it. I just felt weird if I didn't know what she was up to or whatever."
Margaret: "I liked knowing that she was gonna be there and warm and staying the night."
Emma: I appreciated the way he described feeling "exhausted" by their relationship. It's a really accurate way to describe how you feel after being put through the relationship wringer.
Lori F.: And that he liked being able to teach her things. It all felt very real.
Margaret: I also like that he was honest about not liking her at first. Most people don't describe relationships as they really go because we rely on the fantasy version of them. It's like we need to believe the fantasy kind exists, and it almost never works that way.
Lori F.: That's true. After a breakup, you often forget the bad stuff and mourn the loss of the good.
Emma: You also settle on a narrative. You position yourself and the other person as characters and give the whole thing some sort of arc.
Lori F.: And he seems very aware of the progression -- the bad and the good.
Emma: Adam just seems to reflect the truth of his relationship. Which is a really tough thing to do.
Emma: Also, it's great how he sums up his monologue with an offer to bring cookies.
Lori F.: Yes! I was just typing that.
Margaret: "I don't really like cookies that much, so don't get mad at me if I bring the wrong shit."
Emma: Perfect Adam moment.
Margaret: I want to talk about how he loved teaching Hannah things. "I wanted that chance to show someone everything." I couldn't tell from that line whether he was saying he'd enjoyed his power and authority in that dynamic or if it was more innocent -- he liked showing her new things.
Emma: Probably both. He felt needed.
Margaret: It reminded me of Adam and Ray's discussion about the in-betweens and how he thinks young girls are preferable because they're vulnerable. I can also see Adam liking being in that position of power.
Emma: It made him feel useful and important. There's something really incredible about feeling like you have the power to enlighten someone else about something.
Lori F.: I didn't get that while watching it, but now that you bring it up, it is interesting that he doesn't mention learning anything from her. But I saw it as sweet too. I think it had to do with wanting to be understood and wanting to share things with her.
Margaret: Right. I can see Adam enjoying showing her things the way it's fun to watch a movie you've seen with someone who hasn't seen it to see them enjoy the excitement of seeing it for the first time.
Emma: I agree with you, Margaret. I think his comment was a mix of both things.

"I THOUGHT THIS WAS GONNA SUCK ASS"
Margaret: So Adam's hot date. First of all, Carol Kane was amazing as her mother.
Emma: She was hilarious. "Oh my god's teeth! You are tall." Adam seemed more normal talking to the mom than I've ever seen him. And he was so smiley! He rarely smiles.



Lori F.: He seemed so uncomfortable too. I feel like he hasn't had much actual dating experience. And when he called to ask her out, it continued. He was so awkward on the phone -- and so aware of his awkwardness.
Emma: "You'll know me. I'm very tall and semi-dashing." It was nice to see Adam get a little bit socially awkward. Totally endearing.
Margaret: I agree with Emma -- I thought it was cute and refreshing. He was a normal nervous awkward guy. I mean, one who puts his head through random ladder steps while calling a girl, but normalish.
Emma: Of course Adam has a ladder in his living room, for no clear reason.
Lori F.: I want more Adam backsatory, just as I want more Ray backstory. We know his grandma sends him money and he was in AA. But more please!
Emma: I get the feeling that we'll be getting more Adam insight in this season and next.
Margaret: I want a whole Adam episode. What did we think of Natalia?
Emma: AKA Shiri Appleby.
Lori L.: I was just very charmed and intrigued by him this episode, which is a new feeling for me.
Margaret: For me too, although I liked him in the episode with Ray too.
Emma: Same. He was very endearing on his date.
Lori F.: I like how he managed to see more mature and likable but retain his essential Adam-ness throughout. "Holy shit!" "Oh my god I love my mom" has to be the best date greeting ever. And when he said, "I thought this was gonna suck ass" -- so Adam.
Emma: Shiri Appleby is also consistently charming. So she was a good choice to put across rom Adam's weirdness. I was also happy when she said, "I think dating is awful," perhaps echoing the thoughts of 90 percent of New York women.



Margaret: The private-eye-decoy thing was a little much, I thought, although something Adam would think was the BEST THING EVER.
Lori L.: Exactly! I thought the PI thing was ridiculous
Emma: Yeah, Adam would definitely be impressed by someone with a weird job like "private eye assistant." But it was totally ridiculous.
Lori F.: It will be interesting to see where this goes. There's obvious initial attraction, but how long till Adam's rage issues pop up? Or he becomes too attached?
Lori L.: Or just too weird for her?
Lori F.: Right, weird can be interesting at first and then just ... weird. But I want to see more of this, so I hope it lasts for a bit.
Emma: Me too. It's good for Adam to be seeing someone else.
Margaret: We know almost nothing about Adam when he's not with Hannah. I want to see him operate without her for as long as possible.
Margaret: Meanwhile, in Washington Square Park...

"YOU'RE VERY GOOD-LOOKING FOR A DOORMAN"
Emma: Obviously Shosh is wondering about Jessa. "Oh my god, is she warm enough?
Lori L.: WHAT is she wearing?
Margaret: "Is it linen?"
Emma: Side note: Shosh has the BEST braids. I aspire to have her hair skills.



Margaret: See, I was not into the party braid, but I'm jumping ahead.
Emma: Oh, I'm referring to the campus braids.
Lori L.: I loved the party braid -- for Shosh.
Margaret: The top of it reminded me of a flower bulb. Do we think Ray is right that Jessa is better off than all of them?
Lori L.: What do you think he meant?
Margaret: I couldn't tell if it was material -- she's obviously gotten herself invited to a palace somewhere where she's surviving on sex and champagne -- or existential. His hustler comment makes me think the former, even though almost everything is existential for Ray.
Emma: I think that comment was more of a reflection of his own self-loathing than actual truth. Jessa is in a pretty rough place right now.
Margaret: Marnie evidently hasn't changed her mind about Jessa since season 1.
Emma: But Shosh and Ray seem to be changing their minds about each other. We see more tears in Shosh and Ray's relationship when they're walking across campus.
Margaret: Shosh's line, "My worst nightmare is that someone thinks I've died and I haven't," stood out for me. Deb Schoeneman, who co-wrote this episode, told me this week that an old thing in TV writing is that the characters should be so distinct from one another that the audience should be able to read any line from the script out of context and know who says it. For this line, I would have guessed Hannah. I wouldn't think of Shosh as someone terrified of being invisible.
Lori L.: Really? I think that's so Shosh!
Lori F.: I agree with you, Margaret.
Lori L.: It's so neurotic.
Margaret: But it's also so, "Look at me."
Lori F.: The conversation about the air quotes was 100 percent Ray.
Margaret: That exchange was so telling.
Emma: The age difference really matters here.
Margaret: Being a condescending jerk also matters here. "Using pantomime to express your emotions is a crutch. We've talked about that."
Emma: Another indication that Ray feels like Shosh's father, like he said in the Staten Island episode.
Margaret: When he says, "I don't even know where to begin explaining this to you," it's obvious he doesn't appreciate teaching Shosh the way Adam appreciated teaching Hannah.
Lori L.: Good point.
Emma: I think Ray just wishes Shosh understood things that she doesn't.
Emma: And Shosh wishes Ray appreciated things that he doesn't.
Lori L.: And was more mature. But I did appreciate Ray's resistance about going to a college party. "Not even seniors should go to college parties."
Margaret: Well, that's a basic truth.
Lori F.: I don't blame him for not wanting to go, but if you have a college girlfriend, sometimes you're going to have to do these things if she's excited about them.
Emma: He's totally out of place in her undergrad, 21-year-old world, but Shosh SHOULD be going to parties with her college friends. Not just going on taco dates with a 33-year-old. She's still in college!
Margaret: I think Shosh and Ray are going to be over soon.
Emma: Definitely.
Margaret: I just hope Ray sticks around anyway.
Emma: I think he will. Adam didn't disappear when Hannah broke up with him.
Margaret: So Shosh goes to the party in question, with the bulbous braid.
Lori F.: That braid was extreme, even for her.
Emma: It was, but if anyone would/could pull that off, it would be Shosh. And her red dress was -- to use a Shosh phrase -- adorbs.
Lori L.: Loved the red dress. So, the doorman?
Lori F.: So he obviously checked her out before she went in.
Margaret: And by obvious you mean leaned over the desk.
Lori F.: Yes, that is what I mean.
Emma: I mean... Shosh is hot!
Margaret: So we knew that was going to happen.
Lori L.: Of course.
Margaret: Side note: I enjoyed Radhika yelling, "I told you not to ash in my mermaid." Even if you only stay for 15 minutes, it was worth showing up at the party just for that.
Lori F.: And we learn during that time that she's feeling claustrophobic with Ray.
Margaret: So worth it all around.
Margaret: I loved when Shosh agreed with the doorman that he'd definitely probably seen her at the club.
Lori L.: Hahaha.
Margaret: There is nowhere he was less likely to see her. He was so far off the mark.
Emma: She didn't want to be herself. She was the clubbing, hot girl with a Muslim name.
Lori L.: "Is that Muslim?" "Sort of."
Margaret: So great.
Emma: So was Shosh saying that he's "very good-looking for a doorman."
Lori L.: Let's talk about why Shosh hooked up with the doorman.
Emma: I think she's starting to feel trapped in her relationship with Ray. At first she was trying new things -- finding love, sex, living with a man. But now they've stagnated a bit. And she feels like she's missed out.
Margaret: In other words, she wants to feel 21 for a minute.
Lori F.: That scene made me sad though.
Emma: It made me sad too. We know that hooking up with a doorman who doesn't know her real name probably won't really fill the voids that she's feeling.
Lori L.: He looked like a god-awful kisser.
Margaret: Agree.
Lori F.: It's clear that she's feeling like she needs space and Ray isn't living up to her hopes, but he's going to be so hurt. And she's going to feel so bad.
Margaret: The whole time I thought about how guilty she'll feel about this.
Lori F.: The cut between Shosh with the doorman and Ray reading at home...
Emma: That was heartbreaking.
Lori F.: Do we think she just made out with him? Still not OK, but I'm curious...
Lori L.: Yes, I think it was just kissing.
Emma: Me too. It didn't feel like a sex-in-the-closet scene.
Lori F.: OK, I thought so too, but just wanted to get your thoughts.
Margaret: Back to Marnie?

FORBID
Margaret: So Marnie learns that Charlie developed and sold an app.
Emma: And she feels immediately inadequate.
Margaret: I relate to her reaction so much. For me there was a point in my early 20s when everyone's accomplishments made me want to cry. Every time I read someone's byline or someone landed a great job. It wasn't that I begrudged them their success -- it was just further confirmation of my own failure.
Lori F.: But it's more than that -- she dismissed him because she thought he was "a sad mess" as she says later. Now she suddenly sees him in a different light.
Emma: I think she enjoyed seeing herself as more together than him.
Margaret: Until this happened. I think Marnie's also confronting what feels like the grave, grave injustice of having been a striver and seeing people who weren't such strivers early on sprint ahead of you.
Emma: Exactly. She feels so frustrated at the world because she did "everything right." I can definitely see how she would feel like this is all very unfair. Because ... life is unfair.
Lori F.: I want to note that Marnie said Hannah has been busy with her book -- defending her rather than calling her selfish as she has in the past.
Margaret: I appreciated that. It reminded me of the dinner party when Hannah was terrible to Marnie to her face but defended her to Charlie.
Lori L.: I didn't dig Marnie's ponytails, BTW.
Margaret: Me either!
Emma: I think she was supposed to look disheveled. Those pigtails felt very intentional.
Lori L.: She was going for the messy natural look, but you know she spent a lot of time making them look messy.
Emma: She's just off her game.
Margaret: I think the goal was more than disheveled. I think she was supposed to look young and naive and weak.
Lori F.: Also, Marnie is the worst at being fake-casual.
Margaret: The worst!
Lori L.: I thought it was really unrealistic that she would wander over to Charlie's office looking that way.
Margaret: I found it realistic that she'd go to the office, but I thought she'd get dolled up first. Remember how dressed up she got in Season 1 when she went to win Charlie back?
Lori L.: After finding out that he had struck app gold and had his own office, you would think she'd spend a lot of time prepping for that visit. And yes, getting dolled up.
Margaret: It would have made more sense if she'd shown up wearing the exact same thing hot employee girl was wearing. And looking uptight in it.
Emma: Also, you don't just sneak into someone's office.
Lori L.: Right -- so silly. And things just got worse when she went to Charlie's office.
Margaret: Much, much worse.
Lori F.: She's so transparent.
Emma: That entire thing was cringe-worthy. I just wanted to yell "stop, Marnie, stop! leave!"
Lori F.: It was awful. She was so out of place, and Charlie isn't dumb.
Margaret: He was also reveling in their changed circumstances a bit, I think.
Emma: He calls her out! "You seem kind of all over the place." Then he asks whether she needs money ... ouch.
Lori F.: And when she says she's there for support and he asks, "From me or for me?"
Emma: That was a perfect line. Charlie had his ultimate revenge. His success was born out of their breakup.
Lori F.: And clearly he's done just fine without her support.
Margaret: Is his app based on a real app?
Emma: There must be something similar, right?
Lori F.: It was also perfect that he had to stop their conversation to go do a lip dub for YouTube
Margaret: Perfect.
Emma: His office was a great parody of the hip, startup world.
Emma: Lots of successful white kids in glasses singing "The Dougie."
Margaret: It was way too hip and polished, and so was he.
Emma: Yeah... no more overly bearded Charlie.
Margaret: Do we think Lena was a little heavy-handed with the Commentary on The Culture here? "People are really responding to software that protects them from themselves. Or other people."
Lori F.: That line didn't jump out at me, so I guess it didn't feel that way to me. Also, I feel like Charlie might actually talk that way in his situation. Like he's used it in pitch meetings or something.
Emma: Yeah, I think my mind glossed over that exchange. Didn't stand out to me either way.
Lori F.: So should we discuss Marnie's dream? And Ray's advice?

WISHFUL BUDGETING



Emma: Ray was so hostile toward Marnie last season. It's nice to see them have some friendlier exchanges, even ... dare I say ... a sort of bond? Ray was really insightful.
Lori F.: What was interesting to me is how insightful Ray can be about OTHER PEOPLE'S lives and career paths, but he doesn't seem to take the same advice for himself.
Margaret: It was interesting to me that he was so insightful about Marnie but not about Shosh. "She's out partying." That doesn't seem out of the ordinary to you, Ray? Then again, lots of people are insightful about everyone but themselves and their relationships.
Lori F.: Right, I don't think it's unusual -- just interesting given that we've seen no ambition from him and he's so jaded and yet he has advice about following your dreams. Ray doesn't seem like a follow-your-dreams kind of guy.
Margaret: Maybe this is coming out of his own sense of regret.
Lori F.: Yeah, it might -- if he couldn't do something, he doesn't want others to make the same mistake?
Emma: I liked that Ray called Marnie on her angry moping. He recognizes that Marnie is jealous, but it must be painful for him to see her whining and not doing anything about it. He sees Marnie as someone who has all the time in the world.
Margaret: Well, not really. He tells her she's never going to look this good again.
Lori L.: One of my favorite lines ever was Ray saying to Marnie, "You will not be able to dress like a magician's assistant."
Margaret: I loved that so much.
Emma: So not all the time in the world. But a lot more time than him.
Lori F.: Marnie really budgeted in six years for Charlie to be broken? SIX YEARS?
Margaret: I think that was wishful budgeting.
Emma: Yeah ... just a bit.
Lori F.: Charlie and Audrey aren't going to end up together, but it's not as if he's staying in his room crying over Marnie. He's not the total sad mess she's made him out to be in his head. He's an attractive guy who is continuing on with life without her as his girlfriend.
Emma: That's the thing about breaking up with someone. You don't get to dictate how they recover.
Margaret: And they could live happily ever after without you, and you could live not so happily without them. There's a sense of a winner and a loser (loser in both senses of the word).
Emma: And I think that Charlie's career success bothers Marnie even more than his new girlfriend. She's actively jealous of Charlie's success. That's the life SHE was supposed to have after she broke up with him.
Margaret: And she doesn't have that life as a result of her confusion but also a lack of confidence and fear of taking a risk. How does the good girl dare to think she can do something crazy and all her own and be successful at it?
Emma: And with singing there's a far greater chance of failure than most other career paths. I was glad we got to hear Allison Williams sing, though. She's so good!
Lori F.: Yes, so good that Ray had to tell her to stop. "It's getting a little too intimate for me."
Margaret: (Well, that was also about the song she chose.)
Lori F.: (True.)
Margaret: This too felt out of nowhere for me. Why hasn't she talked about singing before?
Emma: Yeah, I agree it was a bit out of the blue.
Lori F.: We know she was in a play with Elijah, but I agree -- I had no idea she could sing or had any interest in it.
Emma: I think they just knew Allison could sing so they settled on that.
Lori F.: Does this mean we're going to see Marnie going to open-mike nights?
Emma: I hope so!
Margaret: I wondered about that.
Lori F.: Was she good when she did karaoke with Elijah? I don't remember except that he told her not to harmonize. And, yes, I realize it's karaoke.
Emma: I think she was? But also, they were both very drunk.
Margaret: I was not focused on the music in that scene.
Lori F.: I wasn't either, but I am just looking for clues now.
Margaret: So will Jessa be back next week?
Lori F.: My gut feeling is no.
Emma: Do you think they'll wait until the last episode of the season to bring her back? I hope not, but they could.
Lori F.: Perhaps. Also, I think next week will have to deal with Ray and Shosh a lot. I mean, that's the real cliffhanger.
Margaret: I think you're right.
Emma: I sense a breakup next week.
Margaret: In the meantime, I suspect Jessa really is warm enough. And possibly wearing linen.
Lori F.: The End.


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Episode 7: Where Jessas Come From

Episode 6: "Like A Man"

Episode 5: "I Want All The Things"

Episode 4: "We're Adults Here"

Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens

Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm

Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"


SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!

Episode 9: You Are The Wound

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad

Episode 7: The Best Party Ever

Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again

Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"

Episode 4: I Just Want Someone Who Thinks I'm The Best Person In The World

Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?

Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To

Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering

RELATED ON HUFFPOST WOMEN:

QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
]]> Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:30:31 EST 2803767

"I DON'T LIKE NOT GETTING JOKES"
Margaret Wheeler Johnson: I thought this was a brilliant concept for an episode. Jessa's backstory is by far the most interesting of all the girls', I think, and after a season and a half, we're finally getting a little insight into it.
Lori Leibovich: I agree completely.
Emma Gray: I really appreciate that "Girls" isn't afraid to switch up its format sometimes. The two standalone episodes this season have both been excellent.
Margaret: I loved the Patrick Wilson episode for that, and I loved this one.
Emma: Me too.
Margaret: So we knew Jessa's parent or parents were going to be crazy.
Lori L.: Right.
Margaret: It would have been so strange if one or both were sane.
Lori L.: Clearly they were going to be hippies.
Emma: And absent.
Lori Fradkin: Just a few conversations with and about her dad told us so much.
Margaret: Wait, do we know where her mother is? She's alive, right?
Emma: Alive, but not around.
Lori F.: I don't think we know where she is.
Lori L.: I don't think so, either. They weren't at the wedding. Not that they would be.
Margaret: Thomas John's weren't either, but for different reasons.
Lori L.: I thought Jessa's father was perfect, and so well cast.
Margaret: Who was that guy?
Lori F.: I just looked it up. Her dad was Ben Mendelsohn.
Lori L.: Can I just say two words: ROSANNA ARQUETTE.



Lori L.: I forgot how much I love her.
Emma: I love her too.
Lori L.: She was perfect.
Emma: Wonderful.
Margaret: And Petula is the best stepmother name EVER. Ever.
Lori L.: EVER.
Emma: She was just the right amount of New Age-y also.
Lori L.: So can we go back to the beginning? Up until this episode I have defended, mostly to my husband, Hannah's nudity. But even I thought the peeing by the side of the train tracks was gratuitous.
Lori F.: Interesting. That was still less so to me than the ping-pong scene.
Margaret: I still like the ping-pong scene and will defend it to the end of "Girls."
Emma: I wasn't all that bothered by either scene.
Margaret: So I wondered for a while what Hannah's role in this episode was. Why was she there? Why didn't they have Jessa go off on her own like Hannah has?
Emma: a) Jessa needed the moral support and b) Hannah was sort of the voice of the audience at times.
Margaret: I think you're especially right on b). I thought about the way Jessa's parents are, and what a child of parents like that needs is a witness to the craziness that gets justified within the family. Hannah was that witness.
Lori F.: To me, there were two main themes to Hannah's presence: 1) her ongoing desire to be like Jessa and have experiences like Jessa; 2) the contrast of Jessa's parents and upbringing to Hannah's.
Margaret: Yes, the contrast in the parents was important.
Lori F.: But so is the wanting-to-be-like-Jessa thing. Remember at the very beginning of last season when Marnie said Hannah would go on a bender whenever Jessa came in town?
Lori L.: Yes.
Lori F.: She's always wanted a certain closeness to her.
Lori L.: It makes sense. Hannah is her own person, but Jessa is a free spirit. She's cool. She's smart. She's very seductive. We've all had friends like that. And they fill such an important niche.
Margaret: But Hannah doesn't really try to fit in once she gets there. She tries to keep up and belong, but she wants to be recognized even though this REALLY is not the Hannah show. We saw it when she gets so excited about being the cushion. "I've never done it before, but I definitely am up for it."
Emma: Does she get excited about that? I thought she felt a little awkward and was trying to appease Petula.
Lori L.: Me too. I thought that was awkwardness.
Margaret: I thought she was pleased to have a role. But I will watch it again to be sure I think that. Side note: Jessa's dad's child from his previous relationship is named "Lemon"? Was that a joke?
Lori L.: It was perfect.
Margaret: I have to defend my Hannah-wanting-to-belong stance one step further. Remember when she says, "What accents are you guys doing just because I don't like not getting jokes." That's an example. Hannah, this is a nod-and-smile-and-be-a-guest situation. I don't think anyone ever taught her that there really are moments when you can be quiet and not assert yourself without sacrificing your autonomy or individuality.
Emma: I agree that she wanted to be included in that moment. But I didn't feel that with Petula and being the cushion.
Margaret: Fine.

"WE'RE NOT LIKE OTHER PEOPLE"
Emma: I found the juxtaposition of Jessa's defense of her dad and his lifestyle and her anger at him to be super effective. Like when she gets mad at Hannah at the beginning for thinking that it's odd that her dad is extremely late picking them up.
Lori L.: I thought Jessa's longing for her dad's acceptance, love and attention was so visceral and so well played.
Margaret: Heartbreaking.
Lori F.: This episode did a nice job of showing us that maybe Jessa has embraced the free-spirit thing because she's had to. And she's a little envious of a more traditional upbringing, even as she flaunts how different she is.
Margaret: I didn't sense Jessa's envy of Hannah, just her utter frustration with her own family.
Lori F.: I'm not saying she wants Hannah's life, but when she tells Hannah not to compare their parents, I feel like she does wish she had that type of support -- the support that Hannah acknowledges at the end.
Emma: I really agree with you, Lori. You feel that conflict really intensely during this episode. She is comfortable in this "free spirit" mentality because she's grown up in it. And you see the similarities between her and her father. But at the same point, she's so damaged by it.
Margaret: The ways that Jessa was like and unlike her father were really nicely displayed. That moment when Jessa's dad is watering the yard and he tells her, "You know, we're not like other people," that was a true statement. But her father displays his off-the-gridness in negligence and alcoholism, whereas Jessa does it in crazy displays of curiosity and generosity. At the end she says she gave her phone to a man in a Mexican restaurant!
Lori L.: I thought that line really illustrated the bind Jessa is in. She wants to be different, and yet look what different has gotten her in terms of family. A lot of instability. A lot of disappointment.


"HE DIDN'T WANT TO WORK ON IT"
Lori F.: Also, he makes that "we're not like other people" comment in response to Jessa's discussion of her marriage: "He didn't want to work on it." "It was like he didn't remember we took vows." I think this is a case where she did want to be like other people. She has an exuberant lifestyle, but she did want it to work out -- unlike her dad, who seems to not put much faith in relationships.
Emma: I think that seeing all of her father's failed relationships -- and how easily he dips out when things get hard -- probably makes her feel like more of a failure in her own marriage.
Margaret: But she reveals that she really valued the vows, or thinks she did. I can see where, given her upbringing, she would value that commitment, even if she entered into it hastily.
Lori F.: Right, she can't just explain it away like her dad can.
Emma: Which is why I think looking at her father's failures makes her feel worse. She doesn't want to be like him in that respect. And in his mind, they're the same.
Lori L.: My sense is not so much that she wanted her marriage to continue. She just doesn't want to be her parents.
Lori F.: I don't think she wanted her marriage with Thomas John to continue once she saw him for what he was, but I do think she entered into the marriage hoping that it would work out and she would be able to have a stable, loving relationship.
Lori L.: Really? I don't buy that completely. I think she got married spontaneously and hopefully, but she's not an idiot. So much was stacked against them, comically so. I just think that when you have a fucked-up family, even if you want something different for yourself and your future, it can feel almost inevitable that your future will be fucked up too. Like you're tainted or something.
Lori F.: I'm not saying she completely thought it through, but it is still sad to her that it didn't work out. I mean, when a relationship doesn't work out, it's always upsetting -- even if it's not right. And in her case, it's not just that he was wrong, but she comes from a family in which things don't work out, so it's doubly upsetting and discouraging.
Margaret: I can see her thinking that she fulfilled her fucked-up destiny even as she tried to escape it, just like in a Greek tragedy. I can also see the cliché of that really pissing Jessa off.
Emma: Can we talk about Frank?


TF
Margaret: So, Turtleneck Frank wandered in from a Wes Anderson movie.
Lori F.: TF, you mean.
Margaret: That's who I mean.
Lori F.: The whole episode looked like it was Instagrammed.
Emma: I kind of agreed with Hannah's assessment that she wasn't sure whether he was "attractive in a loserly way or just losers."
Margaret: I didn't think he was a loser, just a strange kid, which one would be, with those parents.
Emma: I didn't think he was a loser either -- harsh wording on Hannah's part. I just mean that feeling when you can't tell whether someone has an attractive quality or not.
Lori F.: I think that was such a perfect Hannah statement -- she can't totally form her own judgments about someone and doesn't want to get it wrong.
Margaret: If someone is male and weird and in her proximity, she is attracted to him. I don't say that judgmentally, it's just her thing.
Emma: Also, it's her thing if the guy in question seems into her. Frank seemed a bit in awe of her and Jessa. And he agreed that he didn't want to eat his pet rabbits.
Margaret: That is many women's thing. I don't think that part is unique to Hannah. Poor rabbits. And three meals a day?



Emma: That seems like an excessive amount of rabbit consumption.
Lori F.: What else would you eat with your grits?
Lori F.: Ew, I just grossed myself out.
Margaret: You grossed me out too.
Lori F.: Jessa's dad said it!
Emma: I liked Jessa's foreshadowing of Hannah's reckless sex with Frank when they're looking at the 1979 Penthouse. Jessa says that the most noble thing you can do is help a boy find his sexuality.
Margaret: No, Jessa, it is not. He will find it either way. Emma: And when Hannah does "help" Frank "find his sexuality," it's clear that it's far from noble.
Lori F.: Right, it's somewhat traumatizing for him. Poor TF.
Margaret: I loved Hannah's "those are crazy vaginas" comment. And one of my FAVORITE lines was when Jessa says, "Who says she's not a doctor" about the centerfold. Damn right.
Lori F.: Did Tyler remind anyone else of a young Prince William?
Emma: He was really pretty.
Margaret: Were we supposed to think he was gay from the beginning?
Emma: Tyler or Frank? Also, we never really got a clear answer about whether they did have a sexual relationship, did we?
Margaret: Tyler. Frank's comment suggested that Tyler had made passes at him, and he hadn't gone for it, right?
Emma: Yeah, I think so.
Lori F.: I wasn't totally clear on what happened between them.
Emma: I think that Tyler was supposed to be the more socially accepted of the pair -- so I bet that Frank is the one who is given a hard time about their friendship.

JOYRIDE
Margaret: We have to talk about the reckless driving. I don't understand why Jessa's still into that, free spirit or not.
Emma: I was genuinely terrified watching that scene.
Lori F.: Yeah, that was just stupid.
Emma: It seemed like Jessa was in a bad place with her dad and was trying to just be as reckless as possible.
Margaret: I agree.
Emma: Hannah was right to freak out and stop the car.
Margaret: Yes, although it's always funny when Hannah accuses others of being immature, even if they are.
Lori F.: Can we discuss the sex scene for a second? So bad. When she was just staring up and patting him on his back...
Margaret: Awful.
Emma: So incredibly awkward. Also, how did she so quickly get from making out to thrusting in the woods? And what did you think about Hannah's horrified reaction that Jessa hadn't also had reckless sex with a 19-year-old?
Lori F.: That was a perfect example of her desire to have shared experiences with Jessa. "That was fully just me trying to have continuity with you."
Margaret: I don't believe her.
Emma: Me either.
Margaret: Jessa in no way suggested that this was what was going to happen. Hannah's the one who stopped the car.
Lori F.: No, Jessa didn't, but I do think Hannah had it in her head that they were in this adventure together.
Emma: I think she wanted Jessa to have done it so that she could feel better about her awkward sexual experience.
Margaret: I enjoy that Lena Dunham found a way to work "Hocus Pocus"into a "Girls" episode. "And Thora Birch is gonna wear a little hat."
Margaret: Do we think Hannah used Frank for sex?
Lori F.: I don't know if "used for sex" is exactly right. Clearly, she didn't get much out of it. But maybe used for experience.
Margaret: Right, used in a way he doesn't even realize.
Lori F.: I think Hannah was right to be skeptical that Frank had sex with "Rihanna."
Emma: I don't think he had sex with Rihanna. Hannah did probably do it "for the story," but does he have a right to be pissed at her? It was a casual sexual encounter in which they both participated equally. She was always only going to be there for two days. I'm not sure that she's in the wrong.
Lori F.: But remember he's 19 and confused. He's experiencing a ton of emotions and doesn't know how to deal with them. I don't think he was expecting it to turn into anything either, but now he doesn't know what to do or if he made a mistake.
Emma: I feel for him, but I don't think that it's Hannah's fault or responsibility.
Margaret: Well, the whole thing cannot have helped her UTI.
Emma: Definitely not.



"I'M THE CHILD"
Emma: I think one of the saddest scenes was where Hannah hogs the covers and Jessa says she doesn't think she was in the "right frame of mind" to see her dad. Hannah tries to relate, but it's just so clear that she couldn't possibly understand what it's like to grow up with the parents that Jessa has.
Lori L.: I thought that was one of the greatest moments on the show to date and yet another example of Hannah's solipsism.
Margaret: Totally. Hannah needs someone to say what Jessa did.
Emma: And I think that their conversation shows that Jessa reached her breaking point. Which is why it made so much sense that she blew up at her father shortly after that.
Lori L.: But did it penetrate? Does it ever? Marnie has called Hannah on her shit, and it never registers.
Emma: I thought it actually did get through to Hannah to an extent.
Margaret: Should we get to Jessa's conversation with her dad? THE conversation?
Lori L.: Yes.
Lori F.: Jemima Kirke was so great in this scene
Emma: She really shined.
Lori F.: The "I'm the child" line was heartbreaking.
Emma: And really beautifully written.
Lori L.: I could cry right now just thinking about it and reading it.
Emma: "Why can't you do one single thing you say you will do?" She was 100 percent right on everything she said to him.
Margaret: I loved that she called him on abandoning his previous girlfriend and their child. And when he said, "You think I can rely on you?" I was so afraid she was going to apologize or agree like someone else might, but she didn't. She said what I think a lot of people would like to say to their parents.
Lori L.: You f*cked up. F*ck you.
Margaret: Exactly.
Lori L.: And you f*cked me up.
Margaret: And take some responsibility.
Lori F.: You just saw how hard things have been for Jessa -- she can act like she doesn't care and loves being on her own, but the truth is it's really sucked.
Emma: Exactly. And she's right to blame him for some of her missteps -- "how much shit I've taken because you never taught me to do anything else."
Lori F.: And he's the grown-up, the parent -- not her.
Margaret: "You have no idea, do you? ... Of how much time I've spent waiting for you?" -- and then, moments later, she's waiting for him again at the store.
Emma: I was actually really glad that he f*cked up again. I think that on your average sitcom, that would be the breakthrough moment. The dad would "see the light" and change. But in reality, I don't know if that happens all that often.
Margaret: I agree.
Lori F.: Me too. That guy isn't going to change overnight, probably not ever, sadly.
Emma: Right. I think part of him wants to.
Lori F.: I don't doubt that he feels bad about how he's acted, but I don't know that he's going to act on that feeling.
Lori L.: I doubt that guy will ever change.
Lori F.: His track record isn't good.
Emma: He won't.
Margaret: What did we think of Jessa's exit?

"SEE YOU AROUND MY LOVE"
Lori F.: It felt right to me.
Emma: I felt really bad for Hannah, though. Just being left?
Margaret: I did, too, but I was more focused on how Jessa was sort of repeating her dad's behavior.
Emma: Absolutely. I think she sort of gave in to that side of herself. Like she's saying to herself, if her dad won't change, neither will she.
Lori F.: I didn't see it as giving over to that side. I saw it more as needing some time to herself.
Margaret: But it does echo the way her father acts.
Emma: I thought it was both.
Lori F.: It does. But I think it's also that Hannah can't understand what she's going through.
Emma: I get that she needs space. And I trust that she'll be back. But I think that Jessa's default is to flee from things.
Lori F.: Yes, "needs space" is a good way to put it. She needs to breathe a little.
Emma: She does. I just wonder whether that impulse is always a healthy one.


"I WAS CALLING TO THANK YOU"
Margaret: I loved when Hannah called her parents at the end. And then peed, while on the phone with them. The call simultaneously showed how much better off she is than Jessa family-wise and that even good, normal parents can be a handful. Her mother will probably always be suspicious and fly off the handle.



Lori F.: I loved that her dad was looking for a $50 hotel room in NYC. "Your mother thinks I'm crazy, but the Internet has deals."
Emma: Her parents are GREAT. Yes, she gets in little fights with them, and they don't always understand each other, but her family cares about her.
Lori F.: I thought it was nice that she called them.
Margaret: You have a known soft spot for people who call their parents.
Lori F.: I know, but it's easy to know you have great parents -- it takes another step to acknowledge it to them.
Emma: Agreed!
Lori F.: And considering how selfish she's been this season, it was nice to see.
Emma: I thought it was appropriately hilarious that when Hannah tries to do that, her parents just expect more selfishness.
Lori F.: Like what's the catch?
Margaret: They know her even better than we do.
Margaret: So are we all living in a computer simulation as Petula suggested?
Lori F.: VIDEO GAME.
Margaret: Excuse me.
Lori F.: I, like Hannah, am waiting for scientific evidence.
Emma: Same here. I'll also be avoiding rabbits.
Margaret: The End.


Read HuffPost Women's Previous "Girls" Gchats:

SEASON 2

Episode 6: "Like A Man"

Episode 5: "I Want All The Things"

Episode 4: "We're Adults Here"

Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens

Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm

Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"


SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!

Episode 9: You Are The Wound

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad

Episode 7: The Best Party Ever

Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again

Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"

Episode 4: I Just Want Someone Who Thinks I'm The Best Person In The World

Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?

Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To

Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering

RELATED ON HUFFPOST WOMEN:

QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
]]> Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:30:25 EST 2748572 TALL BLOND STRANGER
Margaret: So, did we think there was any purpose to the first scene other than to introduce Joshua? And to allow Ray the opportunity to tell Grumpy's customers, "Go back to your panda videos. Or I'll turn off the wifi"?
Lori L.: To show Ray's serious anger issues?
Margaret: It definitely accomplished that, but the episode wasn't really focused on Ray.
Emma: Not at all. I thought the first scene was more of a vehicle than anything else -- and a fun way to get some more Hannah-Ray time in.
Lori F.: It seems his default mood is rude and put-upon.
Lori L.: But I think his display of childishness shows, again, that Shosh is really the grown-up in that relationship.
Emma: And it's clear Ray is pretty unhappy with his work.
Lori F.: I really feel like the whole episode was just leading up to Hannah and Joshua's conversation at the end. There were moments that were interesting, but I didn't really get that interested until Hannah's speech in bed. It was really different from almost any other episode in a way, in that the entire episode built to a certain moment.
Emma: Yeah, I enjoyed the change-up in structure. It was nice to get an episode where Hannah was doing more than making super obnoxious, self-centered comments every time we saw her.
Margaret: Although she made some of those obnoxious self-centered comments
Emma: Of course! Because she's still Hannah.
Lori F.: Yes.
Emma: But pulling her into an extended interaction with a stranger did allow us to see different sides of her.
Lori L.: Yeah, it was nice to linger on one character.
Margaret: So. We meet Joshua.



"IT'S KIND OF MY VICE"
Margaret: First I want to talk about Hannah's outfit. Another f-you to the short-shorts haters? Or am I reading too much into it?
Lori L.: You might be.
Emma: I loved it. I'm not sure if it was explicitly about that, but I think that it was a great Hannah outfit. Good job, Jenn Rogien!
Margaret: Either way, it's totally true to character.
Emma: I really loved when she was confessing that she was the one who put trash in his trash can, she said, "It's kind of my vice."
Margaret: "That's how it started. I liked the way it felt": that is a script straight out of a Lifetime movie. She was totally parroting addiction melodramas there.
Emma: Perfectly.
Lori F.: But she's also living in her own story -- she's always looking at her life in terms of how it will read to others.
Emma: And I thought it was a great touch when she added that she didn't get how annoying the trash situation would be because she'd never had her own can. Again driving home how un-"grown-up" she is.
Margaret: I just love that she's so self-centered but so un-self-aware.
Emma: But also kinda ballsy.
Margaret: I think she's able to be ballsy because she doesn't really get how she's perceived.
Lori L.: Totally oblivious.
Emma: Definitely. But that allows her to do things like kiss Patrick Wilson. Who by the way, is not what most 42-year-old men who sleep with 24-year-old women look like.
Lori L.: What do you think her attraction to Joshua was about -- and what was his to her? And did anyone besides me think it was terribly unrealistic?
Margaret: I did think it was unrealistic, but the whole thing felt like a fantasy that Hannah was playing out.
Emma: Exactly. I felt like the departure from realism was intentional. Joshua was a total fantasy man, which is why we'll never see him again. Beautiful, older, successful, stable, gorgeous home.
Lori L.: And a doctor! But the house... can we talk about the house?
Emma: Oh. My. God.
Lori F.: You mean the "fixer upper"?
Lori L.: Every single one of my Brooklyn real estate fantasies came to life on the screen.
Margaret: They were supposed to. Lena envisioned that set with you in mind, Lori Leibovich.
Lori F.: Hannah was right that it was like a Nancy Meyers movie.
Margaret: Okay, but that comment about Nancy Meyers. I would have thought she'd say a Nora Ephron movie. Or have some Nancy Meyers movies been brownstone-specific in a way I'm not remembering?
Lori L.: Not that I know of, but I didn't take it that literally.
Lori F.: I think Nancy Meyers is just the go-to reference for perfect homes.
Emma: I mean... "The Holiday" did feature some pretty amazing houses.
Margaret: I was just thinking that. That movie was pure house porn. Also Jude Law daddy porn, but I digress.
Lori F.: I think the attraction on her end had to do with two things: 1) that he was attracted to her; 2) the idea of domesticity she's been playing with all season.
Margaret: Right. And a hyperfocus on money, which we saw last week, too.
Lori F.: Right. The scene where he was reading the paper. And the one where she was drinking wine while he was cooking. That's in a way what she's been aspiring to.
Lori L.: Also, even though his marriage is ending, he represents stability in all other ways that she lacks it.
Lori F.: I want to talk about that kiss. Why does she do it?
Margaret: To advance the fantasy?
Lori F.: Is it just the potential for a good story?
Emma: I feel like she's turned on by all of his things and just goes for it.
Lori L.: I think it's all of the above, but mostly I think it's about the narrative. As the dopey editor at JAZZHATE made clear, you need to Live in order to write anything of interest. I also just think she was genuinely hot and bothered. I mean, he's really hot!
Emma: SO hot. I was definitely a little jealous.
Lori L.: And the opposite of the boys she's been playing around with -- physically and emotionally.
Emma: Yes! Could you picture someone less like Adam?
Margaret: It's like she's forcing into realism a scenario we're not usually allowed to see on TV -- a guy like him going for a girl like her, and her initiating.
Lori L.: And forcing him into it because I don't think he ever would have initiated it.
Emma: No, but he was genuinely into it.
Lori L.: He probably didn't realize he could be attracted to her -- until he was. And you can totally see the charm. Here's this guy whose marriage is in shambles, who is approaching middle age, and this young woman full of possibility and energy and balls comes on to him?
Lori F.: I don't think it was just that he didn't think he'd be attracted to her. She definitely was testing the boundaries, and then he went with it.
Emma: Agreed.
Margaret: She was giving him an opportunity to be someone totally different for a few days, or at least do something he wouldn't normally do.



"NOT THE FEEDBACK I'VE BEEN GIVEN"
Lori L.: I'm just guessing, but you can imagine that one of the reasons his marriage ended is a lack of fun and passion and spontaneity.
Margaret: I can.
Emma: Definitely. He seems a little bit uptight.
Lori L.: And there she is, in his kitchen, representing all of that.
Emma: They each represent things that are missing from the other's lives.
Lori L.: Which is probably the #1 reason people of different ages fall in love.
Emma: I loved the contrast between him making steak and her sipping red wine and the 20-something guys messing around downstairs. And how Hannah called him on being the guy who shakes his fist at young people.
Lori F.: But I also thought it was very Hannah to just disregard his request to be called Joshua. For whatever reason, it matters to him and she just blew it off.
Margaret: I didn't like that she blew it off, either. But the way he talked about it also made it sound like there was a backstory there that I was curious about. "I used to know a guy named Josh who I hated." It was kind of like his explanation of his divorce -- we got just enough information to make us want more. Which we obviously weren't going to get because as Emma said, he's not lasting beyond this episode.
Lori L.: It didn't bother me at all that he said so little about the divorce. Why would he want to go into detail with her?
Emma: Right, I found it more shocking that she just outright asked him what he did to drive his wife away. Who asks things like that to a stranger?
Lori L.: Maybe I imagined this, but he seemed pained when he talked about it.
Lori F.: Well, I'm sure it's still painful for him. Should we discuss her demand that he beg her to stay?
Emma: I thought it was really telling that she tried to leave because she was convinced that was what all men wanted.
Lori F.: By the way, I love that she said, "It's not my first time at the rodeo." That is one of my favorite expressions. (Says the Texas girl.)
Emma: So good.
Lori L.: I loved that too.
Margaret: I feel like it's been overused. Asking him to beg was just experimentation, I think. She wanted to see how far she could push this.
Emma: And I think he found it fun.
Lori L.: It echoed the time with Adam when she asked for cab fare.
Margaret: It did. This kind of power game definitely turns her on.
Lori F.: And then you see the other side of Hannah when he calls her beautiful, and she says it's "not the feedback [she's] been given."
Emma: I thought that was such an honest exchange. She sounds genuinely surprised that he thinks she's beautiful. And I think that a lot of women feel that way, unfortunately.
Lori L.: I think even beautiful women feel that way. It's our collective feeling of unworthiness.
Margaret: But she said she does think she's beautiful.
Emma: I wasn't sure if I believed her or not.
Lori L.: Me either. I was skeptical.
Margaret: If she's not telling the truth, it's interesting that she's not letting on. She's trying to project confidence.
Emma: I also was struck by how intimately the sex scenes were filmed. So many close-ups.
Lori L.: I give Lena Dunham so many props for that. It makes the sex seem so believable and raw.
Margaret: Lena is very good at recreating the awkwardness of real sex, that it isn't usually choreographed.
Emma: But Hannah seemed to be enjoying herself. We haven't really seen her enjoy sex before this.
Lori L.: Good point. She is genuinely turned on. She's feeling something rather than just acting out a scene/doing what she thinks she should. There was so much of that -- the acting -- with Adam.
Emma: YES! And Joshua wants to make her feel good.
Lori F.: So I have no problem with Lena showing her body, but I do wonder why Hannah had to play ping-pong topless. That scene stunned me more than others.
Lori L.: How so?
Lori F.: I mean the nudity. It's felt more natural in sex scenes or in the bathtub, whereas here it didn't. So it was more jarring.
Margaret: I didn't think the topless ping-pong was extreme. I thought they were having fun. What was unusual was that it we were privy to it.
Lori L.: But would she really play topless?
Lori F.: I don't know -- I just feel like she would have worn one of his shirts or something.
Lori L.: Did that seem in character to you, MWJ?
Margaret: Yes, it did.
Lori F.: I thought it seemed extreme even for her.
Emma: I was a bit taken aback, but it didn't bother me or seem totally out of character.
Margaret: Should we get to the speech?



"PLEASE DON'T TELL ANYONE THIS, BUT I WANT TO BE HAPPY."
Margaret: So we knew this was coming. We'd seen that Hannah was getting upset by the whole situation. The way she stares at him on the patio while he's reading the paper? She seemed to be already coming to terms with the fact that this couldn't last, that the end was coming and had to.
Lori F.: The fainting was just a way of getting us there, right? I didn't miss anything in that...?
Margaret: For me it was also a representation of the sort of fugue state this whole episode is for Hannah. She walks down a street, enters a house she doesn't know, spends two days with a person she doesn't know, then leaves that house. I thought falling asleep/passing out in the steam emphasized the degree to which this episode was like a dream.
Lori L.: Yes, the steam especially. Also maybe her wanting to be rescued somehow.
Margaret: Yes! Maybe that was the overarching fantasy of the episode -- the dream of being rescued.
Emma: The steam scene was also a good transition. And genuinely scary.
Lori L.: I wish we had a transcript of the speech. I feel like we could dissect it line by line.
Emma: It was amazing. It felt like a major turning point for Hannah -- like when she made that speech to Adam last season.
Margaret: But some of this felt a little borrowed to me too. When she says that she must hate herself to let people do some of the things they've done to her? That's a line straight out of therapy and self-help.
Lori F.: "What makes me think I deserve that?" "Something's broken inside of me."
Margaret: I bet Hannah's read a lot of self-help. Lena certainly has.
Emma: Did you feel like it wasn't genuine, though?
Lori L.: I don't know. When you say it now, it does seem canned, but at the time I watched, it felt really genuine to me.
Emma: Me too.
Margaret: Somewhat, but she also reminded us that her confidence is very much intact: "If anything, I think I'm just too smart and too sensitive and too not crazy." That grandiosity felt much more genuine, more thoroughly Hannah, to me.
Emma: That part felt very self-centered Hannah. But I thought she had moments of clarity.
Margaret: Right. I thought what was brilliant about this speech was how it switched so quickly between expressions of a universal longing and the usual Hannah myopia.
Emma: That's why I liked it so much. I think Hannah loves to think of herself and different and removed from everyone else. Above it all.
Margaret: This reminded me a little of something Nora would write: "I want what everyone wants. I want all the things."
Emma: I loved that line.
Lori L.: Loved.
Lori F.: I think Hannah has told herself that she is different from everyone because she's a writer. She's told herself that so much and wants to believe it. And yet she's not that different. And if she's not different, why has she been living the way she has? She can't make excuses for it the same way.
Emma: It made total sense to me that being in this 2-day fantasy in this perfect home would make her think about that.
Lori F.: I found this part so interesting: "I made a promise such a long time ago that I was gonna take in experiences, all of them, so I could tell other people about them." Do you think Lena feels that way at all?
Lori L.: Hasn't Lena essentially said that?
Margaret: That reminded me of what Jessa said last week about wanting to be "full of experiences."
Lori F.: And yet Hannah wants what so many people want.
Emma: Right, to feel settled and comfortable and loved. And it's scary to admit that, because you can't guarantee that you'll get that.
Margaret: Yes, it's much easier to pretend you don't want or need comfort. So you convince yourself that you can just decide not to need it, and then you'll have less to lose.
Emma: And partially, that uncertainty is just about her age.
Lori F.: I think she's told herself for so long that it's OK because she's experiencing things for OTHER people.
Emma: Right.
Lori F.: But it's still her life.
Emma: It makes everything OK if she's doing it for some higher purpose. But really, she's just doing it all to herself.
Margaret: The "letting anyone say anything to me" kind of broke my heart.
Emma: That made me tear up.
Lori L.: Me too. That line killed me.
Lori F.: But then Joshua mentioned the hand job story, and she just dismissed it.
Margaret: She did not like it when he tried to make this a conversation. This is the Hannah show -- do not try to get a word in.
Lori F.: Yet she got upset with him for not opening up to her.
Lori L.: I felt like what she was saying was way beyond him.
Emma: Yeah, I thought it was fairly predictable that he got freaked out. They don't know each other. How was he supposed to react?
Lori L.: Right.
Emma: He was trying not to be that guy, but he didn't know what to say.
Margaret: She thinks she opened up to him and he rejected the true her, but she overshared, and he rejected the oversharing.
Lori F.: She was being selfish, and yet I felt for her when she asked if he still wanted to kiss her. She realized that something changed because she revealed too much.
Lori L.: He may just have wanted his house to himself after two days. By that point any person might be getting antsy.
Margaret: True, but the switch seemed to happen over the course of her monologue.
Emma: Yeah, it did.
Lori F.: Right. "You basically begged me to tell you all my feelings." No, he did not.
Margaret: I think she's very vulnerable to confusing affection and comfort for permission to tell all, and for unconditional devotion.
Emma: I did laugh when she said, "What's your damage, Josh?" I couldn't help but think of "Heathers."
Lori L.: JOSH! She's so freaking inconsiderate.
Lori F.: It also reminded me of "Friends" when Rachel always calls her boyfriend (Tate Donovan?) Josh-u-a.

TAKING OUT THE TRASH
Margaret: Are we supposed to wonder if this episode was a "sexit," the word Hannah thought she coined at the beginning of the episode? I think it was more of an escape. She checked out of her life for a few days.
Lori F.: It was an escape after she indulged for just a little longer.
Emma: Yeah, I don't think it was a sexit. I LOVED the ending of the episode when she wakes up and plays house for a little while.
Margaret: Me too.
Emma: Making his bed and taking out his trash --
Margaret: Which started this whole thing...
Emma: It felt like a little step in the right direction for her. Like an indication that one day, Hannah COULD grow up. This character DOES have the ability to evolve.
Margaret: It's almost like she went on a little enrichment retreat, sex included.
Emma: Healthy sex.
Lori F.: I think that speech is going to be one of the pivotal Hannah speeches we discuss.
Margaret: Well, it's one of the few instances where she's explicitly laid out what she's about.
Emma: I think we needed to see a more vulnerable, sympathetic side of Hannah.
Margaret: It's what we've been waiting for.
Lori F.: Too bad we won't see more Patrick Wilson, though.
Emma: It really was a treat.
Margaret: As was his brownstone.
Lori F.: The end.

Read HuffPost Women's "Girls" Previous Gchats:

SEASON 2

Episode 4: "We're Adults Here"

Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens

Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm

Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"


SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!

Episode 9: You Are The Wound

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad

Episode 7: The Best Party Ever

Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again

Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"

Episode 4: I Just Want Someone Who Thinks I'm The Best Person In The World

Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?

Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To

Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering

RELATED ON HUFFPOST WOMEN:

QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
]]> Mon, 11 Feb 2013 07:14:53 EST 2658857 Tuesday night's episode of "The Mindy Project" ended with Mindy Kaling's character, Dr. Mindy Lahiri, and her colleague Danny Castellano (Chris Messina) eating pizza together after a failed Valentine's Day double date. It was a sweet moment that seemed to be yet another hint that the two gynecologists will end up together. After all, despite their frequent bickering, they ultimately support each other and enjoy spending time together.

I'm not convinced.

Why? Because they don't need to. "30 Rock," which ended last week, gave us a prime example of a man and woman who work together and care about each other without ever dating, sleeping together or getting married. (At least not on purpose.) Although there was always speculation about whether Liz Lemon and Jack Donaghey would pair off, Tina Fey kept her promise that their relationship would never turn romantic.

While Mindy Kaling has not put an end to the will-they-or-won't-they questions about her own show -- which is smart considering that the Mindy-Danny connection is intriguing and that it's only the first season -- it would be wrong for fans to assume that they will one day look over at each other in the doctors' lounge, realize their true feelings and make out to the background noise of "The Real Housewives of Miami." "30 Rock" offered a model for a different type of relationship, one that seems just as likely to evolve on "The Mindy Project."

Mindy has already hooked up with one of the doctors in her practice, the British Casanova Jeremy (Ed Weeks), as well as the midwife in the building, Brendan (Mark Duplass), so it's not as if her character is opposed to mixing business with pleasure. And, yes, it's been fun to witness the tension between Mindy and Danny this season, as in the episode "Danny Castellano Is My Gynecologist," in which they both tried to call each other's bluff about whether Mindy could be Danny's patient without awkwardness. (They make it to the breast exam before Danny calls it quits.) I worry, though, that taking their relationship further would hurt their incredible non-platonic bond -- a bond that reflects one many of us have with our friends and co-workers and doesn't necessarily serve as a gateway to romance. It would also disrupt Kaling's professional-woman-with-a-messy-personal-life story line. As she told Collider, "There is this cliche of, 'Oh, your professional life is fine, but your romantic life isn't.' But, that's also really true of me and all my friends. You don't want to not do something that's relatable simply because you're worried that it might be cliche ... A formula isn't bad, if it's executed at a really high level."

Unlike in the cases of Jim and Pam on "The Office" or Ross and Rachel on "Friends," in which one half of the eventual couple was pining over the other and the audience would have been disappointed had they not fallen in love, neither Mindy nor Danny has expressed interest in changing their dynamic, and it's satisfying and entertaining to watch them interact as they are now. Like Liz and Jack, they often insult each other, sometimes in brutal fashion -- Mindy has made comments about Danny's divorce, and he's said some pretty hurtful things about her appearance -- but also like Liz and Jack, they're there to bail each other out of difficult situations. Remember when Danny comforted Mindy at her Christmas party and even read her prepared speech for her after she found out her boyfriend was cheating?

Mindy Kaling is a self-professed admirer of the romantic comedy, which often ends with the two leads coming together, but her approach has thus far been put a twist on the formula. In the same Christmas episode, rather than proposing the standard marriage deal if Mindy and Danny are still single in five years, she proposes a suicide pact. So while many writers are calling her union with Danny "inevitable" -- and even Ike Barinholtz (who plays the nurse Morgan) has said he thinks "they should end up together" -- it feels like too obvious a trajectory.

Though Danny and Mindy don't have the mentor-mentee relationship that Jack and Liz did, they still have plenty to learn from one another. They're pals, buds, occasional antagonists. And as "30 Rock" proved, this type of relationship can be quite fulfilling on TV -- just as it is in real life.

]]> Wed, 6 Feb 2013 08:48:10 EST 2629907 Diablo Cody won the Oscar for her first screenplay, "Juno," and has gone on to write the films "Jennifer's Body" and "Young Adult" as well as the TV show "United States of Tara," so she's hardly a Hollywood outsider at this point. But that doesn't mean she lives in such a bubble that she can't see the industry's flaws and call out the areas where it needs to do better. A vocal advocate for women, the 34-year-old screenwriter is the co-chair of this year's Athena Film Festival, an event organized to showcase female leaders "in both real life and the fictional world." Cody, who also wrote the screenplay for the upcoming (musical!) "Sweet Valley High" movie, spoke to HuffPost Women about her frustration with the Oscar nominations, the famous Wakefield twins and her admiration for Lena Dunham.

On the biggest challenges for women in Hollywood: "Obviously there is a major, massive lack of representation. If this is 'the year of the woman,' we’re screwed. Just look at the Oscar nominations -- not a single woman nominated for Best Director, and out of 12 screenwriters nominated, only one is female. When I look at that, I realize that we have a long way to go. I appreciate the positivity of those 'year of the woman' articles -- it’s good to get that energy out there -- but at the same time, in Hollywood it’s not happening yet."

On the industry's emphasis on appearance: "It doesn’t matter if they’re in front of the camera or behind the camera. I know women who are producers who are surviving on nothing but juice and almonds. Even though they are not on-camera talent, they feel that to fit in this industry and in this town, you have to have a frail, bird-like physique. It’s not even enough to be thin. You actually have to look ill. And I’m not interested in that. I never have been. I don’t get sent any clothes, but that’s fine. Women are typically objectified in this business. The primary job for women in Hollywood is still super-attractive actress. That is the most high-profile women’s job in Hollywood. So you can see why it would be challenging for a writer or a director who is attempting to sell her ideas and not her sexuality or looks or charisma."

On Lena Dunham and the backlash against "Girls": "I absolutely love Lena Dunham. I don’t know her personally, but I’m completely obsessed with the show. I cannot believe what she has accomplished at 26. I think she is like our new Woody Allen. That’s how highly I think of her. I have to say I was not the least bit surprised by the backlash that she has encountered. Because any time you’re a woman who dares to be unconventional, outspoken, sexual -- I mean, she’s taking her shirt off every week, God bless her -- of course people are gonna bitch about it. People cannot process the fact that a woman could be sexual and funny and brilliant and sensitive and flawed and beautiful and all of those things. Women are used to being put in boxes and compartmentalized. People are more comfortable when we stay in our box. And Lena Dunham is jumping from box to box all the time. I hope that she’s enjoying herself. I find myself feeling very protective when I read about her because I went through an experience like that in my 20s. I went through exactly what she’s going through, except I wasn’t a huge TV star -- that’s gotta add to it. But I think to myself, 'God, I hope she’s enjoying this time and appreciating it and not just sitting at home grinding her teeth about the criticism.'"

On whether she's a Jessica or an Elizabeth: "Francine Pascal, who wrote the books, said that her readers usually wanted to be Jessica but were Elizabeth. And I would say I kind of fall into that category. I really want to be the selfish bitch. I want to be the bad girl. When it comes down to it, I’m really just an introverted, awkward writer. So I guess I’m Elizabeth. Aren’t we all really Elizabeth? If someone actually is Jessica, I don’t even think they have the self-awareness to admit it."

On the best advice she's received from a woman in the industry: "Penny Marshall directed some episodes of 'United States of Tara,' and one day I was sitting at the monitor and I said, 'Penny, can you give me some advice on directing because I don’t know where to begin and I think it’s something I want to try.' And Penny pointed at the monitor and she said, 'You put what you want to see in that box right there. And that’s what you shoot.' And I realized I had really been making it more complicated in my mind. Penny nailed it."

On the woman she most wants to work with: "Honestly, this will never happen because she’s so much classier than me, but I would love to work with Sofia Coppola. I’m just like, 'Can you just direct one of my scripts someday please?' I just love her. She is one of the cool girls. 'Lost in Translation,' to me, is a masterpiece."]]> Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:21:55 EST 2569811

DOMESTIC UN-BLISS
Lori: So this episode was fantastic
Emma: I absolutely LOVED it. I think it's my favorite thus far.
Margaret: This is the episode we've been waiting for -- complex, surprising, even a little moving...
Lori: And we got to see stories from all four girls.
Margaret: Yes. I feel deprived when we don't. So first, Elijah and Hannah.
Emma: Yeah, this episode did for me this season what the third episode did last season.
Margaret: Why is Hannah dressed like a central casting housewife? Pinned hair, muumuu?
Emma: But no underwear.
Margaret: "My whole crotchal area just spreading out." Is crotchal a word?
Lori: Is her getup part of her vision of domesticity?
Margaret: I think it is. Hannah's been working this all season. Later this episode she says, "Excuse me, I am grown up. That's why I cooked all this food."
Lori: Right, and there was that comment about throwing dinner parties and how entertaining keeps her young in the first episode.
Emma: Hannah's entire story line took place in her home this episode, so it makes sense that it focused on her "domestic side." Although the whole scene was very domestic un-bliss. It was a divorce of sorts.
Margaret: Nothing is more domestic than divorce.
Emma: (Side note: I loved that Elijah justified not paying rent because he paid for Hannah's burritos junior year.)
Margaret: Wait, that can't be a side note. I have things to say about that.
Emma: OK, not side note.
Margaret: Elijah: "They were way more expensive than a normal girl's burritos because you were constantly doing add-ons. Spinach, guac, pecans." So Elijah's essentially calling her fat.
Emma: Which he's done before...
Lori: "A normal girl's" is an interesting choice of wording.
Lori: But beyond the weight comment, though it's not insignificant, that's just a dick move to bring up food he paid for as her boyfriend.
Emma: Yeah, I took it more as a characteristically bitchy Elijah comment. He wanted to lash out at her.
Margaret: Hannah wasn't letting the meanness in, though. I love how some of this stuff bounces off of her. "It's not my fault that you didn't want to liven up your meal."
Lori: I also liked the exchange about her "repurposing" him. She didn't want to get rid of him, but he didn't serve his previous function in her life.
Margaret: I thought Hannah was being very honest there. I think that's how she thinks about everyone -- as a character. She thought she could use him in another story, but she couldn't.
Margaret: One more point on their conversation about junior year: Hannah says, "That's what a boyfriend does. They pay for things." Look where that kind of thinking got Elijah.
Emma: Right, I mean a lot of Elijah's anger in the first place stemmed from the fact that he's broke and homeless right now because he was so dependent on George.
Margaret: Given that, he doesn't seem as worried or angry as you'd think he'd be. I thought it was particularly low that Hannah talked to George about keeping all the furniture. I know she's angry, but that's calculated.
Emma: I think that was more about getting back at Elijah -- and for George too! She says George wanted her to keep all of it.
Margaret: Right. Conspiring with the ex-boyfriend to screw your roommate out of your joint belongings is pretty heartless.
Emma: Also, they had to really get Elijah out of the story line because they had no way to bring Andrew Rannells back this season. So I think that explains PART of why their roomie breakup was so dramatic. I was glad Andrew Rannells' last scene of the season was lively.
Margaret: Speaking of lively, are we ready for the dinner party?

"NOTHING WITH CONDIMENTS"
Margaret: I think this was Hannah at her purest.
Lori: Yes! In so many ways. She was obsessed with everyone loving her party, didn't want anyone to be mad at her, etc.
Margaret: And making typically bad choices as a result. You just made some actual cash, so you spent it on organic pad thai ingredients?
Emma: But again, classic Hannah. She was trying to demonstrate how "adult" she is. She can pay for dinner for her friends, throw an event and simultaneously celebrate her publishing accomplishment.
Margaret: For the record I did similar things so many times. "I made like $25 -- now I get to act like I'm 40 and have a summer house in Connecticut!"
Margaret: Then there's the way she treated Marnie. "I just invited her as a gesture."
Lori: "It is frankly psychotic of her to show up."
Margaret: Then she tells Marnie to stay.
Emma: She is terrified of people not liking her.
Margaret: I thought Marnie handled this situation remarkably well.
Lori: Me too. This is my favorite Marnie episode. I thought she seemed mature.
Emma: She did. She was very gracious to Charlie and Audrey and offered to leave.
Lori: But she had some good zingers too.
Margaret: Yes!
Emma: Like when she said that she and Hannah had done "nothing that great, nothing with condiments" after Audrey was talking about her mustard company.
Margaret: All together now: "So, where do you get your headbands?"
Emma: Perfection.
Lori: So great.
Margaret: A total f-you to the mustard chef.
Emma: Audrey is also the perfect pseudo-artisan Brooklyn hipster.
Lori: Especially when she asked Hannah if she was doing some slam-poetry night. Shut up, Audrey.
Emma: I do love that in real life, Audrey Gelman is the inspiration for Marnie. So there's something kind of meta about her being a character who fights with Marnie.
Margaret: Also, terrible segue on her part from discussion of butt plugs to how Marnie must be thinking about Charlie's asshole.
Lori: I know I just told Aubrey to shut up, but I may have to take it back. I don't blame her for being mad at Marnie for SLEEPING IN HER BOYFRIEND'S BED. I'm not sure about the butt comment and the setting for bringing it up, but I'd be pissed too.
Emma: I agree that she had every right to be pissed off, but this perhaps was not the forum to discuss it. Also, Audrey sank pretty low. "What was he supposed to do, turn away a crying mess?" I understand the impulse to say things like that, but ouch.
Margaret: And the bit about slitting her wrists? Terrible.
Emma: Hannah of course chimes in with the comment "Marnie's too self-involved to commit suicide."
Margaret: I loved that Hannah line. Again, SO HER.
Emma: SO HER.
Lori: OK, should we discuss the scene on the roof?

"YOU WILL NEVER AGAIN GET ANY ... ANY OF THIS"
Emma: I didn't blame Marnie for just getting up and leaving. I would have done the same.
Margaret: Me too, probably earlier.
Lori: I wouldn't have gone to the roof though. I would have left.
Margaret: Right.
Emma: Same.
Emma: Also, I appreciated how honest Marnie was. "I'm a hostess, I don't know what the next year of my life is going to be like at all ... sometimes I just wish someone would tell me ... this is how the rest of your life should look."
Margaret: Marnie wanted to talk about how she felt. She was in friend mode, being honest with someone who knows her well.
Emma: And Charlie was in rekindling-romance mode...



Margaret: Also regret mode. And drunk mode.
Lori: Right, and we saw how flattered/happy she was to hear Charlie detailing her good qualities.
Emma: Well, anyone would be.
Margaret: What did we think of his reaction to Booth Jonathan?
Emma: Marnie dating Booth REALLY stung Charlie. "That little Ewok in fuckin' capri pants."
Margaret: The penis gesture at the end was sad to me. That's not Charlie. He doesn't think he's a lothario, and he wouldn't want someone to miss him for the sex.
Lori: I think he was just so thrown off -- his ego was bruised, and he reacted. It didn't seem like him though.
Emma: I thought it was pretty unfair of him to assume that he would go comfort Marnie -- while having a girlfriend -- and that she would want to hook up with him.
Lori: He kind of tested the waters at Jessa's wedding too -- joking about hooking up in the bathroom.
Emma: At this point, Marnie is just trying to figure out her next moves. She's definitely not in a place to get back together with her college boyfriend. Also, what did you think about Hannah finally defending Marnie to Charlie when he comes back downstairs?
Lori: Well, she's right. He is being a jerk.
Emma: Absolutely! I was really happy that Hannah just put it out there, especially after Charlie called Marnie a c*nt ... which was so out of line.
Lori: He was "repurposing" Marnie's words about Audrey.
Margaret: It was good to hear that Hannah knows what Marnie's been through, that she didn't completely miss everything that's happened in Marnie's life over the past year.
Emma: And it rang really true to me. Like, you can be pissed at your best friend -- but that doesn't mean you want other people to speak badly about her. Should we move on to Ray and Shosh?


"WE'RE ALL ADULTS"
Lori: Shosh's excuse for why they were late and subsequent for apology for lying was incredible.
Emma: Classic Shosh to be utterly embarrassed about being late -- and of course about having sex.
Margaret: Ray seemed so old and tired to me in this scene. Which was appropriate, considering what he later revealed to Shosh.
Lori: It was interesting that Ray said we're all adults, you can tell them we had sex. But is that really a mark of adulthood? I mean, discretion seems more adult.
Margaret: I think you can say you just had sex without anyone being squeamish. It just seems like bragging to me.
Emma: This episode really set up the differences between Shosh and Ray. He did seem kind of old and tired, and she was especially youthful with her pigtails. I think that was very intentional.
Margaret: Agree. On a different note, the way the group collectively explained butt plugs felt highly realistic. That's how peers explain sex to each other -- with awkwardness and unfinished sentences.
Emma: And hand motions.
Margaret: Well, that may be just a Hannah thing.
Lori: But when Hannah went, "Shosh!" -- I feel like that just makes it worse for Shosh, who already worries she's out of the loop. It's like saying, "I can't believe you don't know."
Margaret: I'm not sure Shosh really feels bad about that, though. I think she's more offended by the concept, once it's explained.
Emma: She really takes those kind of comments in stride.
Margaret: She definitely didn't seem embarrassed when she turned to Ray and asked, "Do you want that?!"



Lori: I loved that her concerns were that she didn't have new sheets or have a chance to talk to her aunt about his moving in.
Margaret: It's interesting to me that Shosh isn't freaked out about discussing these things with Ray in front of an audience. Somehow that's not among her concerns about propriety, but getting new sheets is.
Emma: I find her really refreshing. She's just so honest -- in a way that most people have a really tough time being honest.
Margaret: There's a lack of self-consciousness there combined with extreme self-consciousness.
Lori: Subway scene?

"I'M A LOSER"
Lori: So I cried both times I watched.
Emma: Me too.
Margaret: I didn't, but I thought it was really well done.
Emma: I also thought it was perfectly New York of them to get into this conversation as the L train is about to come.
Emma: Shosh: "You're older than me -- you should have your own place. You should have more interests and passions and things that you do."
Lori: I thought that quote was really insightful.
Emma: Me too. I think that she's been kind of in awe of Ray because he is older and more sexually experienced. For the first time she's realizing that maybe she has it more together than he does in certain ways.
Margaret: I think everyone tends to put the other person on a pedestal at first.
Emma: Absolutely. It was heartbreaking when he calls himself a loser. This really was Ray with all of his bravado stripped away.
Margaret: I want to know more about how he got into this position.
Lori: This is the first time I realized Ray was in his 30s.
Emma: Me too. I thought he was in his late 20s. Why are all of his best friends under 25?
Lori: Clearly a lot of his sarcasm is masking some insecurities.
Margaret: Yes.
Lori: I want to go back to something you said, Margaret. I think Lena makes a really good point here showing how we often feel like "the lucky one" in a relationship. I think Ray's sense of "Do I even deserve her?" isn't uncommon.
Margaret: Not at all.
Lori: He feels lucky to have her.
Margaret: And evidently has been terrified of being found out.
Emma: I think we're all always a bit terrified of someone discovering our vulnerabilities.
Lori: At least in the early stages, which is where they are.
Emma: Right.
Margaret: But I think there's also a fear of discovering the other person's weaknesses and shortcomings, and that when you do, you'll be disappointed. I think Shosh probably feels a twinge of that, even though she cares about him.
Emma: No one is ever as great as the image they try to portray.
Margaret: Which is why dating is flawed, which is a different conversation. Do we think Ray was right that it's way too soon for Shosh to say she's in love with him? She's 21.
Lori: You know what? I actually believe they do love each other. I have no idea if it will work out, but I accept that they have those feelings.
Margaret: I did believe her.
Emma: I absolutely believe it.
Lori: They're both sensitive enough to each other, at least at this point, that I have more faith in them than I might in other couples this early in the relationship.
Emma: They're both more honest people than most of the other characters.
Lori: Zosia Mamet is so good in this scene. After he tells her not to say she loves him, the look on her face is perfect -- a genuine struggle with how to proceed and concern that she messed up.
Margaret: I think she's at her most excellent here.
Emma: She's a fabulous actress. And she and Alex Karpovsky have great chemistry.
Margaret: Whereas Jess and Thomas John suddenly have less great chemistry.



"I HATE THIS RESTAURANT"
Lori: The honeymoon is OVER.
Margaret: I knew it when she said people who are early are vile. Actually I knew it when she was so defensive with Hannah when they were at the park with the puppies.
Emma: It was bound to explode.
Lori: OK, Thomas John was awful in a lot of ways, and I really do feel bad for Jessa, but I have to say this: Jessa needs to learn that you can be yourself and also tailor your behavior to certain situations.
Emma: Agreed. She was TRYING to torpedo that dinner.
Margaret: "I hate this restaurant, but I don't even care because I'm so happy to meet you guys!" Yet one of the reasons I love Jessa is that she refuses to tailor her behavior.
Emma: She was angry that Thomas John misrepresented her -- telling his parents she was going to be a graphic designer, for example.
Margaret: The graphic-design thing was terrible. Way to show your wife you're ashamed of her.
Lori: Also, the dinner made clear how little they know about each other. Had she not told him she only went to Oberlin for seven months?
Margaret: I don't think they've bothered to get to know one another. I love when Jessa starts taking revenge -- mentioning that she left Oberlin for rehab and that she's been drinking since she was a child.
Emma: And this zinger, "Wish there was a lord, but I know there isn't."
Margaret: Then she flirted with her father-in-law.
Lori: Thomas John's dad was also leering.
Margaret: He was fairly lechy.
Lori: The comment about how he was glad she wasn't hurt, "especially in the face and especially on your body." Gross.
Emma: He was lechy ... but also I think he was trying to smooth everything over. It was awful when Thomas John's mom implied that Jessa was a gold digger.
Margaret: Every scenario this episode has been about money. And it played a huge role in the fight that ensued when they got home.

THE SHOWDOWN
Margaret: I appreciated that we got to see exactly how insecure and slimy Thomas John is all over again in this scene.
Lori: Yes, he was back to the Thomas John we met initially. He's a big baby.
Emma: He's SUCH a whiny baby! I think that Jessa was being pretty intentionally awful at dinner, but the scene between the two of them at their house was sad. You could feel the rage.
Margaret: The biggest difference between them came out right away. Jessa said she couldn't imagine that he'd wanted her to lie, and he said that wouldn't be the worst thing.
Emma: But to her, it would be. She has never misrepresented herself to him.
Lori: Jessa showed that she can really throw a punch, verbally and physically. "I'm embarrassed when we walk down the street because you're so fucking average."
Emma: I think she's right that he married her because he wanted to "live" -- to do something that was not so average and boring.
Margaret: Jessa may have had the most arresting lines of the whole show here: "I am going to look 50 when I'm 30. I am going to be so fucking fat because I'm going to be full of experiences." She was very emotional when she said it. It was sort of a profession of her personal creed.
Lori: I thought it was also interesting that she used the word "fat" that way. A positive spin?
Margaret: And that she wants to look older than she is. It's proof of what an individual she is -- she doesn't assign fat or age any of the thousands of negative associations the culture puts on them.
Emma: That was fabulous. Also Thomas John really reached his apex of awful with this line: "You know why I like hookers? They respect me."
Lori: The idea that hookers respect him is absurd.
Margaret: I doubt they respect you, dude.
Emma: Definitely not. But that just so perfectly summed up his feelings about women. He doesn't want the reality of a person. He doesn't want a relationship that will challenge him in a real way. He wants someone who will complete whatever image he wants completed at that moment.
Lori: He thought Jessa was going to be his little trophy wife, but then she didn't want to be on display -- she actually had thoughts and opinions, and he couldn't handle that.



Margaret: And I doubt Jessa knew or cared that he's the one guy to make money during the recession, unless he bragged about it. Also, Thomas John, that is simply untrue. A (small) number of people made a ton during the recession.
Lori: "I'm a miracle. I'm a unicorn!"
Emma: He truly is a delusional person, as Jessa says.
Margaret: And miraculous only in the depth of that delusion.
Lori: The second Jessa called him ridiculous, I thought of our conversation last week about whether Marnie realized that Booth is ridiculous. Jessa sees it and tells it like it is.
Emma: I couldn't fault Jessa for smacking him when he called her a "whore with no work ethic."
Margaret: Suddenly he's saying to her what his parents seemed to think of her. Suddenly he's speaking completely as their little boy.
Lori: The fact that he won a "Hum-y" was the perfect touch.
Emma: "I won that for being a fucking humanitarian." And he probably considers himself one. Such a pathetic little man.
Margaret: He isn't doing a great job of respecting Jessa's humanity. And he can only have won that thing for donating obscene amounts of money, which isn't exactly being a humanitarian.
Emma: Not at all. But he can hold that award up and show it off and claim he's something that he's not. I loved Jessa for smashing it.
Margaret: Can we talk about how she lowballed the amount she asked for? Is it because she's clueless, doesn't want any money or both?
Emma: Maybe both? Or maybe she just wants it to be over with. It was heartbreaking that they were talking money.
Lori: I don't think she wants the money, but she takes it out of spite.
Margaret: Anyone disappointed that they broke up so soon? I really wanted this to last a little longer.
Lori: I'm not that disappointed, actually.
Emma: I'm not sure if I'm disappointed. I thought it was a really great ending. Appropriately dramatic. It wasn't the type of relationship that could disintegrate. It had to explode.
Margaret: I agree with that, but like I said a couple of weeks ago, I sort of wanted to see this crazy experiment work or at least get our hopes up that it might. If we're being honest, I also wanted more Thomas John. So what did we think of the end of the episode?

WHERE IT ALL BEGAN
Emma: Perfection.
Margaret: I loved it. It was the Marnie/Hannah dancing scene of season 1.
Lori: Again, great acting. I think some of the things Thomas John said really did hit home with Jessa, and she feels a little lost. She did care about him, even if he is a jerk. And it's always disappointing when something doesn't work, even if you know it's not right.
Margaret: Always.
Emma: I loved that Hannah was singing Oasis, I loved how broken Jessa was (all displayed through Jemima's face) and I loved that she got in the bath with Hannah.
Margaret: Although again, what friends do that, even in Williamsburg?
Lori: Hannah and Jessa would.
Emma: Yeah, it felt right for their characters.
Lori: They are so open with their bodies that it's believable.
Emma: And the fact that they were naked made Jessa feel more vulnerable. She's too exhausted to do anything or talk about anything, but she just wants to be near Hannah.
Margaret: Somehow they always come back to the tub. It's like the well at the center of the show. Now with snot in it.
Emma: It's the equivalent of the elevator on "Grey's Anatomy."
Lori: All they needed were cupcakes.
Margaret: Do we think this show's ultimate scene will take place in a bathtub?
Emma: Do you mean the finale?
Margaret: Not the season finale, the show finale -- god forbid it ever comes.
Emma: Well, it would be appropriate, coming full circle.
Lori: I'm sorry, I just can't think about that yet. Too sad.
Margaret: Let's not. The end.

Read HuffPost Women's "Girls" Previous Gchats:

SEASON 2

Episode 3: Where the Magic Happens

Episode 2: Sad Little Glowworm

Episode 1: "Are We Okay?"


SEASON 1
Episode 10: Surprise!

Episode 9: You Are The Wound

Episode 8: Pissed And Sad

Episode 7: The Best Party Ever

Episode 6: You Can Always Go Home Again

Episode 5: "Are You F-ing Kidding Me?"

Episode 4: I Just Want Someone Who Thinks I'm The Best Person In The World

Episode 3: Are We Hearing Ourselves?

Episode 2: Self-Sabotage Hurts The Way It's Supposed To

Episode 1: Unimpressed -- When We Were Cheering

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QUIZ: Are These Quotes About "Sex and the City" Or "Girls"?
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